The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-16-2005, 09:05 AM   #1
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Galadhremmin Ennorath

(The idea for this thread was sparked by a talk at Tolkien 2005 in Birmingham. The speaker ummed & erred a lot, so it was difficult to follow his argument. This thread idea, therefore, is made up of my own thoughts, inspired by what I heard).

Galadhremmin Ennorath

Shippey translates (Author of the Century) this as ‘tree-tangled Middle-earth’ & refers to various images in Tolkien’s works. He says

Quote:
The images oppose stars & trees: the stars give a promise, or for Elves a memory, of a world elsewhere; the trees represennt both this world & a barrier to starlight, something through the branches of which mortals look up to try to catch a glimpse of the vision which would otherwise be clear.
So, for Shippey, the branches of trees (the things of Middle-earth - even the natural ones) get in the way of the pure, clear vision of the spiritual world. The branches are a ‘barrier’. If the branches were removed, therefore, the stars would be revealed in all their glory.

Yet the Elves love trees most - after the stars - so do they really think of them as a ‘barrier’, as something in the way, an ‘obstacle’ to their vision of the stars?

The image of ‘light’ shining through tree branches is a recurring one which runs throughout the history of Middle-earth.

Quote:
Now Eriol was coming from the south & a straight road ran before him.....in places overhung with great dark yews. Through them as he climbed the road he could see the first stars shine forth...

The sun had sunk beyond the boughs of the elms .....& sometime had its gold faded through the leaves.... (Cottage of Lost Play:Book of Lost Tales)
Quote:
Thy singing poplars; & ther splendid yews
That crown thine aged walls & muse
Of sombre grandeur alll the day-
Until the twinkle of the early stars
Is tangled palely in their sable bars
.....

And oft they dance beneath the roofless sky,
When naked elms entwine in branching llace
The Seven Stars,
& through the bough the eye
Stares golden-beaming in the round moon’s face
(Kortirion among the Trees:BoLT)
Quote:
High to heaven they (elm trees) rose in three lessening storeys of bright foliage, & the sunlight that filtered through was very cool - a golden green...

Now was Orome less gloomy & Palurien was comforted, seeing the beauty of the first stars of Varda gleaming in the pale heavens through the shadows of the first trees boughs....(The Chaining of Melko:BoLT)
Quote:
He gazed, & as he gazed her hair
Within its cloudy web did snare
The silver moonbeams
sifting white
between the lleaves, & glinting bright
The tremulous starlight of the skies
was caught & mirrored in her eyes..(early version)

And Beren looked into her eyes
Within the shadows of her hair,
The trembling starlight of the skies
He saw there mirrored shimmering


(Lay of Leithian)
Bear with me on the last one - there is a link between trees & hair.

Quote:
Above her brow her head was covered with a cap of silver lace netted with small gems, glittereing white....(Many Meetings)
Quote:
I sang of leaves, of leaves of gold....
And by the strand of Ilmarin there grew a golden tree
beneath the stars of Ever-eve in Eldamar it shone
...

And in a fading crown have twined the golden Elanor
(Galadriel’s song in Lorien)
The last line quoted is interesting, given that the literal translation of ‘El-anor’ is ‘star-sun’. Galadriel has woven a ‘crown’ of star-suns’ to place on her head/in her hair...

Quote:
‘There is nothing, Lady Galadriel,’ said Gimli......’Unless it is permitted to ask...a single strand of your hair, which surpasses the gold of the earth as the stars surpass the gems of the mine.’(Farewelll to Lorien)
Quote:
Enerdhil loved all green things that grew, & his greatest joy was to see the sunlight through the leaves of trees. And it came into his heart to make a jewel within which the clear light of the sun should be imprisoned, but the jewel should be green as leaves....

For it is said that those who looked through this stone saw things that were withered or burned healed again or as they were in the grace of their youth. (History of Galadriel & Celeborn)
Finally, coming back to Galadriel’s hair - allso in Galadriel & Celeborn we’re told that:

Quote:
...her hair held a marvel unmatched. It was golden like the hair of her father & of her foremother Indis, but richer & more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory f the starlike silver of her mother; & the eldar said that the llight of the Two Trees, Laurelin & Telperion, had been snared in her tresses. Many thought that this saying first gave to Feanor the thought of imprisoning & blending the light of the Two Trees that later took shape in his hands as the Silmarils. For Feanor beheld the hair of Galadriiel with wonder & delight. He begged three times for a tress, but Galadriel would not give him even one hair.
In light of this last statement, we can see how significant is Gimli’s request for a single hair from Galadriel’s head. Feanor requests a tress of it & is rejected. Gimli asks for one, to set in [i]imperishable[/b] crystal & she gives him three. This may be even more significant, if Gimli goes on to set each of the three hairs in a crystal of its own.

Galadriel’s name is usually translated as ‘Lady of Light’ but its actually closer in meaning to ‘radiient haired maiden’ Tolkien describes her hair as ‘’shining’. It shines with the light of the Two Trees, So, if the hairs are set in animperishable crystal each by Gimli, what he will end up with are three imperishable crystals, shining with the light of the Two Trees.

The similarity between the Quenya & Sindarin words for ‘Tree’ & ‘Light’ are interesting in this context:

Quenya Sindarin

Alta = Light = Galad
Alda = Tree = Galadh

What we have, running right through the Legendarium, from Tolkien’s earliest writings down to his final ones, are the twin images of light shining either through tree branches or in women’s hair. Why? The hair thing is difficult to answer, but the connection of Light & Tree is easier - the ultimate, archetypal, trees in Middle-earth were Telperion & Laurelin, which shone with Golden & Silver Light. It may be that light shining in or through hair is meant to work as analogy. Every appearance of trees with light shining through their branches seems to be a deliberate ‘echo’ of the Primal trees, as is every image of gold & silver light - especially when they are mingled - as in the hair of Galadriel. So, its not so much that the branches of trees get ‘in the way’ of the stars, but rather that the two - trees & gold/silver light are a single thing, a tree of light..

Or am I completely wrong here?

Last edited by davem; 08-16-2005 at 09:09 AM.
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 09:08 AM   #2
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,349
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
Quote:
"Or there maybe 'tis cloudless night
and swaying beeches bear
the elven stars as jewels white
amid their branching hair."
No, I do not think you are wrong at all. Not at all.

If memory serves-- was it not Feanor's frustration at being refused his request (of a strand of hair) that made him determined to create the silmarils in the first place? (Edit on rereading-- sorry, you already said that, more or less. ) Had Galadriel aquiesced, would we have had a happy Feanor-- and no theft, no oath, no kinslaying, etc, etc?

Which would mean that the fate of Middle-Earth was turned by Galadriel's hair and her attitude about it. (Clumsily said. And of course there are many other parties involved, etc. But the fact of her refusal remains, as does the connection between hair, trees, light, stars.
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

Last edited by mark12_30; 08-16-2005 at 09:19 AM.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 09:23 AM   #3
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12_30
No, I do not think you are wrong at all. Not at all.
Missed that one! I'm sure there must be many similar examples. Its interesting how in Middle-earth the experience of seeing light shining through branches or in hair inspires 'longing' & in many cases feelings of holyness.

Within Middle-earth it can be explained - it was due to the shining of the Two Trees, giving light in the darkness. But its such an odd image to choose. The word for hair (Fin) crops up in numerous names, alongside so many other references in fact that one has to say that 'hair' belongs among the physical things in Middle-earth that also have a 'spiritual' connotation - stars & trees particularly.

I suppose one has to speculate on the possible connection to the halo's of Saints - but then where do the tree branches fit in? In Middle-earth the relationship of light-hair-tree branches seems to be unique - unless there's some other myth or religion that makes the same connection, I can only think it was Tolkien's invention - & its such an odd sybolism...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Helen
Which would mean that the fate of Middle-Earth was turned by Galadriel's hair and her attitude about it. (Clumsily said. And of course there are many other parties involved, etc. But the fact of her refusal remains, as does the connection between hair, trees, light, stars.
Its also interesting (as one speaker pointed out) that Feanor, who desired her hair, went on to create the three Silmarilli, & Celebrimbor went on to create the Three Elven Rings, while Gimli went on (or may have at least) to create three crystals containing strands of her hair.

Last edited by davem; 08-16-2005 at 09:28 AM.
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 09:29 AM   #4
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,349
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
He's even got ents with mossy beards and leafy, branchy stuff on their heads.

I wonder what Edith's hair was like, especially while she was dancing in the wood. Anybody know?
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.
mark12_30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 09:44 AM   #5
Bęthberry
Cryptic Aura
 
Bęthberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,979
Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.Bęthberry is wading through snowdrifts on Redhorn.
Boots

Oh now pyrotechnic Galadriel of the movies makes so much more sense.
__________________
I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.
Bęthberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 10:07 AM   #6
drigel
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
drigel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: commonplace city
Posts: 518
drigel has just left Hobbiton.
lather, rinse, repeat

Nice ideas. Something definately was there for the author, wasnt it? But perhaps its the only real physical sense we really get when we feel fairy: the glimpse of a soft blending of silver and gold as it filters through nature. delightfull

Its art imitating life in its highest sense. The wonders Feanor created captured light, back when light was Light. It all repeats itself over time, albeit to a lesser and lesser extent. But it's all congruent with the desire of the elves to capture, or recapture an icon, or an idea, or a feeling that they dont want time to ravage.
drigel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 11:20 AM   #7
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark12_30
If memory serves-- was it not Feanor's frustration at being refused his request (of a strand of hair) that made him determined to create the silmarils in the first place? (Edit on rereading-- sorry, you already said that, more or less. ) Had Galadriel aquiesced, would we have had a happy Feanor-- and no theft, no oath, no kinslaying, etc, etc?
One thing that comes to mind is something another speaker said - after Feanor's repeated requests for a tress of Galadriel's hair it states that 'they were unfriends forever'. This is odd if you think about it - what was it about Feanor's request that produced such an extreme reaction? The speaker suggested there may have even been an incestuous desire on Feanor's part - after all, a lock of hair is a classic 'lover's gift'. I'm not sure about this, but Galadriel's response does speak to something more than mere irritation at being pestered for some of her hair. Another possibility suggested was the folklore tradition of using hair or fingernails of a person to cast a spell over them.

Certainly we do see that Feanor's desire was the 'light', the radiance, of Galadriel's hair. If, as in Sam's song, the branches of trees are seen as their 'hair' then it seems that Feanor's use of the light of the Trees is a substitute for the light of Galadriel's hair - it is a 'second best'. Maybe his reaction to the theft of the Silmarils is caught up with his feelings for Galadriel?

The Maedhros/Idril story springs to mind - this at least shows that incestuous desires for near kin were not wholly alien to the Eldar.....
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 01:15 PM   #8
Encaitare
Bittersweet Symphony
 
Encaitare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
Encaitare is a guest of Tom Bombadil.
Quote:
Yet the Elves love trees most - after the stars - so do they really think of them as a ‘barrier’, as something in the way, an ‘obstacle’ to their vision of the stars?
It's an interesting theory, but the Two Trees were first made by the Valar, and Yavanna herself had the trees in her care. While trees do represent something more earthly than the stars, they both have their sources in the Valar, and ultimately in Iluvatar. And the trees, earth-rooted as they are, grow upwards, reaching for the stars.

Quote:
The Maedhros/Idril story springs to mind
I do believe you mean Maeglin.
Encaitare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 02:01 PM   #9
davem
Illustrious Ulair
 
davem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.davem is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Encaitare
It's an interesting theory, but the Two Trees were first made by the Valar, and Yavanna herself had the trees in her care. While trees do represent something more earthly than the stars, they both have their sources in the Valar, and ultimately in Iluvatar. And the trees, earth-rooted as they are, grow upwards, reaching for the stars.
That's Shippey's theory. I agree with you



Quote:
I do believe you mean Maeglin.
I did. That's what happens when you spend hours finding quotes - names blur together in your mind.

Oh, & I also put too many 'm's in the thread title, too

Last edited by davem; 08-16-2005 at 02:25 PM.
davem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2005, 02:16 PM   #10
Kuruharan
Regal Dwarven Shade
 
Kuruharan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.Kuruharan is battling Black Riders on Weathertop.
Boots

Quote:
Oh now pyrotechnic Galadriel of the movies makes so much more sense.
AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!

Anyway...

There is a theory that Elves represent a more spiritual aspect of our nature and the Dwarves represent a more earthly. For some reason I have a notion that perhaps to the Elves the trees represent a part of their attachment to the world around them since the trees are rooted in the earth while reaching up toward the heavens. Thus they may be less of a barrier and more of a connection. (This is completely ignoring the rest of the above mentioned theory that humanity represented the link between the two.)
__________________
...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

Last edited by Kuruharan; 08-16-2005 at 02:19 PM. Reason: additional idea
Kuruharan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:46 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.