If Gollum and Bilbo had parted in a civil manner... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Thinlómien · 10-27-2005, 07:54 AM

I am currently reading The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien. I have found quite a lot of interesting things there. The Letter #128 (on p.141) I came across with yesterday. It has proven itself quite exciting.
It is a letter to Allen&Unwin after they had published a new edition of The Hobbit (July 1950). Along with the correction of minor mistakes the original Chapter V, "Riddles in the Dark" had been replaced with a newer version of the chapter that Tolkien had sent in 1947, but not actually intending it to be published.

The interesting thing here is that the story in the first edition was different. The footnote #1 to this letter tells the following:

Quote:

In the original version of Chapter 5 of The Hobbit, Gollum really does intend to give Bilbo the Ring when the hobbit wins the riddle-game, and it'sdeeply apologetic when he finds that it is missing: 'I don't know how many times Gollum begged Bilbo's pardon. He kept on saying: "We are ssorry; we didn't mean to cheat, we meant to give it our only present, if it won the competition." He even offered to catch Bilbo some nice juicy fish to eat as a consolation.' Bilbo, who has the Ring in his pocket, persuades Gollum to lead him out of the underground passages, which Gollum does, and the two of them part company in a civil manner.

(That was the whole footnote.)

When this version of The Hobbit was published to Tolkien's surprise, he was already writing The Lord of The Rings. I just wonder how did he get the story to fit the previous passage...

If the previous version was the final version of the chapter...
* The significance of Bilbo as the only Ringbearer who has ever given the ring away willingly would be greatly reduced.
* The whole 'pity'-aspect would be ruined.
* Gollum's behaviour would appear unbeliveable; he would have changed from a polite riddle-gamer into a slimy thief.

Just now I can't think about any other changes...
Any ideas? Comments? Anything to add?

(I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but I didn't find anything related to this with forum search...)

Rimbaud · 10-27-2005, 07:57 AM

Good digging! Further even than your fine points, the original version questions the very essence of the Ring. It would make TH entirely incompatible with LotR, rather than simply lighter in tone.

Thinlómien · 10-27-2005, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rimbaud

Good digging! Further even than your fine points, the original version questions the very essence of the Ring. It would make TH entirely incompatible with LotR, rather than simply lighter in tone.

That's true, the Ring wouldn't be nearly as tempting and enslaving if Gollum had let it go willingly. (And even without a really heavy reason like Bilbo in LotR.)

Gothmog · 10-27-2005, 08:14 AM

What an interesting change of scene that is. I'm wondering if Gollum really could have given the ring away? He intended to give his precious to Bilbo, but Bilbo intended to leave the Ring to Frodo at his departure. Still, Bilbo found it hard seperate from it. Shouldn't Gollum, who had the ring for many hundreds of years, had an even harder struggle with himself?

The ancient rules of the Riddle game is mentioned in TH. Would something like that be able to override the ring's power and make Gollum give away his ring?

I doubt Gollum would be able to give away the Ring once it lay in his hand. In this old version, he doesn't have a choice. But if this version were to be published as the right one, Gollum's lack of reaction of the missing ring wouldn't agree very well with LotR.

But in some way, the loss of the ring as mentioned here seems like the best thing that could happen to the poor creature. Maybe, if the story was written in this way, Smeagol could die in peace.

Estelyn Telcontar · 10-27-2005, 08:25 AM

When Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, the ring was just a magic ring, a convenient device for making Bilbo invisible and helping him through his adventures. Only when JRRT chose to make it into The One Ring for LotR did its nature change - and that passage from The Hobbit had to be changed to make it fit. Rimbaud is right - they wouldn't have been the same ring.

Thinlómien · 10-27-2005, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

When Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, the ring was just a magic ring, a convenient device for making Bilbo invisible and helping him through his adventures. Only when JRRT chose to make it into The One Ring for LotR did its nature change - and that passage from The Hobbit had to be changed to make it fit. Rimbaud is right - they wouldn't have been the same ring.

This is true - but isn't it strange, that Tolkien didn't still seriously commit the version where Gollum cheats and Bilbo follows him invisible through the passages?

Eonwe · 10-27-2005, 08:41 AM

Gollum wouldn't have gone out looking for Bilbo. Sauron would never have learned the names Shire, and Baggins. Or at least not until much later. I think it says somewhere that he had to speed up his plans a great deal when he learned that the Ring had been found (the chief purpose of the attack on Osgiliath was to present the Ringwraiths as captains of the war, instead of scouts for the Ring.) This could be good and bad, because as Gandalf (I think) says, "oft the hasty stroke goes amiss." Anyway, Gollum would certainly come off looking much better than the pitieable wrech he is in LOTR.

10-27-2005, 07:57 AM	#2
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	The Ring would not be as we know it be Good digging! Further even than your fine points, the original version questions the very essence of the Ring. It would make TH entirely incompatible with LotR, rather than simply lighter in tone. __________________ And all the rest is literature

10-27-2005, 08:14 AM	#4
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	What an interesting change of scene that is. I'm wondering if Gollum really could have given the ring away? He intended to give his precious to Bilbo, but Bilbo intended to leave the Ring to Frodo at his departure. Still, Bilbo found it hard seperate from it. Shouldn't Gollum, who had the ring for many hundreds of years, had an even harder struggle with himself? The ancient rules of the Riddle game is mentioned in TH. Would something like that be able to override the ring's power and make Gollum give away his ring? I doubt Gollum would be able to give away the Ring once it lay in his hand. In this old version, he doesn't have a choice. But if this version were to be published as the right one, Gollum's lack of reaction of the missing ring wouldn't agree very well with LotR. But in some way, the loss of the ring as mentioned here seems like the best thing that could happen to the poor creature. Maybe, if the story was written in this way, Smeagol could die in peace. __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

10-27-2005, 08:25 AM	#5
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	When Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, the ring was just a magic ring, a convenient device for making Bilbo invisible and helping him through his adventures. Only when JRRT chose to make it into The One Ring for LotR did its nature change - and that passage from The Hobbit had to be changed to make it fit. Rimbaud is right - they wouldn't have been the same ring. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

10-27-2005, 08:41 AM	#7
Eonwe Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: In a world grown ever smaller. Posts: 678	Gollum wouldn't have gone out looking for Bilbo. Sauron would never have learned the names Shire, and Baggins. Or at least not until much later. I think it says somewhere that he had to speed up his plans a great deal when he learned that the Ring had been found (the chief purpose of the attack on Osgiliath was to present the Ringwraiths as captains of the war, instead of scouts for the Ring.) This could be good and bad, because as Gandalf (I think) says, "oft the hasty stroke goes amiss." Anyway, Gollum would certainly come off looking much better than the pitieable wrech he is in LOTR. __________________ I've got bridge club on Wednesday, Archery on Thursday, Dancing on a Friday night!