Are you Satisfied? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Boromir88 · 11-08-2005, 01:50 PM

I really didn't know what to name this, but basically the title says it all (and I'm sure there's been threads like this, but I haven't seen one in a while)...Are you satisfied with the stories The Master (plus his son) gave us on Middle-earth and it's history? Would you have liked to have seen more, perhaps more stories after the War of the Ring (maybe The New Shadow Tolkien started writing then abandoned because he wasn't happy with it?) Or are you satisfied with what we got?

Me, personally, I'm pretty fine with the stories we got. Sure, I would like to probably see more, maybe learn more after the The War of the Ring, but I'm pretty happy with what we got.

The reason is, I saw a thread on another forum talking about this new book that should be written based of LOTR called Return of the Ring, or something. It was pretty much a bad idea and from what I read from this person it would have major plotholes, plus I'm sure a sueing from the Tolkien Estate would occur. But anyway, I got to thinking, I don't want to see LOTR (or Tolkien's other books) and the Histories of Middle-earth turn into another Star Wars dilemma. What I mean is, with all these spin off books that are made up, that are junk, and create big plot holes. That's been the biggest dilemma with Star Wars and all the spin-off novels. I would hate to see LOTR and Middle-earth become a Star Wars. So...I guess I'm pleased with what Tolkien has given us. Though sometimes I wish there to be more, it's fine not to have more....

(P.S. Hope I'm not talking in circles

)

Lalwendë · 11-08-2005, 02:04 PM

My first reaction is that I don't think I could cope with more!

However, I do think that unless Tolkien himself had written some more tales, then it's just something we will never be able to grasp. He always wrote just enough tales. Perhaps it is familiarity which makes me feel comfortable with what there already is. And I bet that explanation was like talking in circles a bit?

Besides, there is so much other stuff available, and the more you read it, the more you realise how it can be read in different ways; the level of detail I'm sure is one of the most important things for keeping the Tolkienist hooked. Everyone here seems to have their own 'area of interest', for example we have those into learning the Elven languages, people interested in delving in HoME, those who like to create their own tales leading off from what Tolkien wrote.

I completely agree about those spin-off books though. I had the pleasure of sitting back and watching the almighty row of two Star Wars fans a few weeks ago while they argued about whether the spin-offs were 'trash'. I think that's what you get when the film comes first. Thankfully, it's al the other way about with Tolkien!

***Mister Underhill*** · 11-08-2005, 02:35 PM

No way, no way am I satisfied. Ah, to anticipate the release of a new Middle-earth novel, to read the Professor's slyly humorous foreword while I stand in line to buy it, to promise myself to savor it -- only a chapter, two at most, a day -- then greedily devour it over a lazy weekend, these are joys most devoutly to be wished. Rereading Tolkien for the fiftieth time and appreciating all his nuance is all well and good, but there's nothing like being swept off your feet and ravished for the first time by a book like LotR. That's where it's really at. I could definitely wish that Tolkien had had a little bit more Stephen King in his makeup.

But I guess it's a bit of a catch-22. His obsessive working and reworking of a relatively small number of core stories is what made them great. I for one wouldn't mind seeing pros take cracks at new Middle-earth stories, as I mentioned in a thread on copyright somewhere around here. Poor efforts could be safely ignored without tarnishing Tolkien's core legendarium, while good ones would be like a welcome new visit with a cherished old friend.

I wish there were more stories.

piosenniel · 11-08-2005, 02:58 PM

I wish there were more stories . . .

Me, too! I long for the announcement that in a battered old trunk, hidden away in some dusty attic, old manuscripts will be found.

Shameless plug here for a favored Barrow-Downs writer:

Having enjoyed Mithadan's "Tales from Tol Eressëa" (the first of which is HERE ), I'd like to see him lend his skills to reworking/completing the unfinished Fourth Age story - The New Shadow.

Just a wish . . .

Cailín · 11-08-2005, 04:14 PM

My, some people are greedy indeed.

More stories? I’m only just starting the Silmarillion and thus have many stories to enjoy still. I’m feeling a bit lost as it is.

Honestly, I don’t think more is really necessary. Tolkien provided me at least with ample material to muse over for a very long time. If there were more, I would fear to lose myself completely in his already complex and elaborate world. Partly, I agree with Mr. Underhill, there is nothing like reading a book for the very first time (especially Lord of the Rings and this is for me an only too recent memory) and discussing and analyzing will never be as wonderful as just sitting down with a book and allowing yourself to be drawn into a whole new world. On the other hand, there is nothing quite so disappointing as quantity over quality in literature. It’s good to leave some things to imagination.

Besides, if another secret and hidden manuscript does turn up, you would still be in the same position after finishing that. All things must come to an end eventually.

Quote:

(maybe The New Shadow Tolkien started writing then abandoned because he wasn't happy with it?)

Well, if he was not happy with it, we probably would not be either. Maybe someone else will continue writing the history of Middle Earth in the future. Though I normally dislike comparisons, if you consider that Tolkien was really an historian (okay, so he invented a whole world and history, but the old Irish monks basically did the same), it is only natural someone would take over at a certain point. Of course, it would never be the same. But it would certainly be interesting. ^^

davem · 11-08-2005, 04:33 PM

There are still some unpublished stories/poems by Tolkien. We haven't yet seen The Fall of Arthur, The New Volsungasaga, or his translation of Beowulf. The recently published Smith Essay contains a wonderful backstory about Smith's grandfather, Rider.

Quote:

His name was Rider, indicating that he was not a member or practiser of one of the chief'crafts'. The Riders were interested in horses and their livelihood was obtained, in addition to the training of horses and horse-doctoring, by acting as the equivalents of a local post and carrier service. They would take messages or letters of urgency and sometimes convey packages to other villages and homesteads, especially those at a distance, often returning with similar errands. This part of their work especially suited Rob, his father's youngest son. He took largely after his mother, a Piper of Wootton Minor, and was restless and adventurous. He began errand-riding when he was little more than fifteen. He soon became known for the speed and accuracy with which he would take messages or perform errands, and for his reluctance to return and report. After a time he ceased to live in Wootton Major, and only returned there at irregular intervals as suited him; he became a 'traveller', a man of no fixed abode or livelihood. During this time though there were many rumours current nothing was really known about his journeys and adventures, until one day he came back, apparently provided with money and certainly with a wife. She was a young and beautiful woman called Rose, one of the Sangsters of Walton a distant village beyond Wootton Minor. She was much his junior, for by that time he must have been at least thirty-five....

And if you want to know what happened next you'll have to buy the book...

Letty · 05-31-2006, 11:55 AM

More,more,more!!!
The more Tolkien and Middle Earth stories i get,the more I want!!!
I would have loved it if the "Lord of the Rings" hadn`t been a trilogy but a thirteenology!!!

ninja91 · 05-31-2006, 12:02 PM

Of course I would love to see more.
I want to know more about the Haradrim, the Variags, the Khandish men, the Easterlings, the peoples of Aman, and the lifestyles of the orcs of Mordor.
I wish I could have seen in more detail the City of the Corsairs, Dol Amroth, Pelargir, the inside of Barad Dur, the inside of Minas Morgul, and the great strongholds and sights of Aman and the rest of Arda.
There was so much left unexplained...

Rhod the Red · 06-01-2006, 03:22 AM

I would have liked a book on the Fourth Age, etc. Though I will say I am satisfied with the books we have now.

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-01-2006, 01:25 PM

As this thread asks for opinions, not actual discussion of the books, I'm moving it to the Novices and Newcomers forum, where similar topics have found their home. Please continue reading and posting there - thanks!

ArathorofBarahir · 06-01-2006, 02:14 PM

I am completely satisfied with the stories that Tolkien and his son have given us, and no I don't think there needs to be anymore Lord of the Rings books.

Elu Ancalime · 06-01-2006, 03:14 PM

I know exactly what you meanBoromir.
That's what sets Tolkien apart from the 'trashy fantasy' as I dub it that emerged after his works and into the present. The problem is is when in the plot, more complications keep arising. Like consider just the six Star Wars movies. Historically and plotwise, you could be satisfied, because Tolkien didnt go back and give more and more history that eventually might have explained some civil war in Rhun, and speculation is what we are used to. I would love to have more information on the other Dwarven Lines, but that will never happen, because even if C Tolien made some it wouldnt feel right, If you get me. It would have had to have been done in the original. Going back to SW, you would think after the dissolution of the Empire and destruction of the Emperor and Darth Vader would have been it. That equals the Downfall of Barad-dur. Now look what happens when you add more information that are too anticlimatic after the sixth movie. Consider if that had happened to Tolien. Luckily Tolkien wasnt as bough out as he might have been in corporate America. (and movies in general have more media)
________
Vaporizers

Lindale · 06-14-2006, 05:27 AM

Personally I'm content... I mean, I'd like more, but if it's all that is, then it's all. No more little books like the ones with Starwars. And if there indeed is more, then wouldn't the stories get a bit confusing?

11-08-2005, 01:50 PM	#1
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Are you Satisfied? I really didn't know what to name this, but basically the title says it all (and I'm sure there's been threads like this, but I haven't seen one in a while)...Are you satisfied with the stories The Master (plus his son) gave us on Middle-earth and it's history? Would you have liked to have seen more, perhaps more stories after the War of the Ring (maybe The New Shadow Tolkien started writing then abandoned because he wasn't happy with it?) Or are you satisfied with what we got? Me, personally, I'm pretty fine with the stories we got. Sure, I would like to probably see more, maybe learn more after the The War of the Ring, but I'm pretty happy with what we got. The reason is, I saw a thread on another forum talking about this new book that should be written based of LOTR called Return of the Ring, or something. It was pretty much a bad idea and from what I read from this person it would have major plotholes, plus I'm sure a sueing from the Tolkien Estate would occur. But anyway, I got to thinking, I don't want to see LOTR (or Tolkien's other books) and the Histories of Middle-earth turn into another Star Wars dilemma. What I mean is, with all these spin off books that are made up, that are junk, and create big plot holes. That's been the biggest dilemma with Star Wars and all the spin-off novels. I would hate to see LOTR and Middle-earth become a Star Wars. So...I guess I'm pleased with what Tolkien has given us. Though sometimes I wish there to be more, it's fine not to have more.... (P.S. Hope I'm not talking in circles ) __________________ Fenris Penguin

11-08-2005, 02:04 PM	#2
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	My first reaction is that I don't think I could cope with more! However, I do think that unless Tolkien himself had written some more tales, then it's just something we will never be able to grasp. He always wrote just enough tales. Perhaps it is familiarity which makes me feel comfortable with what there already is. And I bet that explanation was like talking in circles a bit? Besides, there is so much other stuff available, and the more you read it, the more you realise how it can be read in different ways; the level of detail I'm sure is one of the most important things for keeping the Tolkienist hooked. Everyone here seems to have their own 'area of interest', for example we have those into learning the Elven languages, people interested in delving in HoME, those who like to create their own tales leading off from what Tolkien wrote. I completely agree about those spin-off books though. I had the pleasure of sitting back and watching the almighty row of two Star Wars fans a few weeks ago while they argued about whether the spin-offs were 'trash'. I think that's what you get when the film comes first. Thankfully, it's al the other way about with Tolkien! __________________ Gordon's alive!

11-08-2005, 02:58 PM	#4
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	I wish there were more stories . . . Me, too! I long for the announcement that in a battered old trunk, hidden away in some dusty attic, old manuscripts will be found. Shameless plug here for a favored Barrow-Downs writer: Having enjoyed Mithadan's "Tales from Tol Eressëa" (the first of which is HERE ), I'd like to see him lend his skills to reworking/completing the unfinished Fourth Age story - The New Shadow. Just a wish . . . __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside. Last edited by piosenniel; 11-09-2005 at 10:03 AM.

05-31-2006, 11:55 AM	#7
Letty Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 48	More,more,more!!! The more Tolkien and Middle Earth stories i get,the more I want!!! I would have loved it if the "Lord of the Rings" hadn`t been a trilogy but a thirteenology!!! __________________ Ash to ash Dust to dust Fade to black I will have my vengeance-in this life or the next

06-01-2006, 03:22 AM	#9
Rhod the Red Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 257	I would have liked a book on the Fourth Age, etc. Though I will say I am satisfied with the books we have now. __________________ Head of the Fifth Order of the Istari Tenure: Fourth Age(Year 1) - Present Currently operating in Melbourne, Australia Last edited by Rhod the Red; 06-01-2006 at 03:32 AM.

11-08-2005, 02:35 PM	#3
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	No way, no way am I satisfied. Ah, to anticipate the release of a new Middle-earth novel, to read the Professor's slyly humorous foreword while I stand in line to buy it, to promise myself to savor it -- only a chapter, two at most, a day -- then greedily devour it over a lazy weekend, these are joys most devoutly to be wished. Rereading Tolkien for the fiftieth time and appreciating all his nuance is all well and good, but there's nothing like being swept off your feet and ravished for the first time by a book like LotR. That's where it's really at. I could definitely wish that Tolkien had had a little bit more Stephen King in his makeup. But I guess it's a bit of a catch-22. His obsessive working and reworking of a relatively small number of core stories is what made them great. I for one wouldn't mind seeing pros take cracks at new Middle-earth stories, as I mentioned in a thread on copyright somewhere around here. Poor efforts could be safely ignored without tarnishing Tolkien's core legendarium, while good ones would be like a welcome new visit with a cherished old friend. I wish there were more stories.

06-01-2006, 01:25 PM	#10
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	As this thread asks for opinions, not actual discussion of the books, I'm moving it to the Novices and Newcomers forum, where similar topics have found their home. Please continue reading and posting there - thanks! __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-01-2006, 02:14 PM	#11
ArathorofBarahir Wight Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Crickhallow Posts: 247	I am completely satisfied with the stories that Tolkien and his son have given us, and no I don't think there needs to be anymore Lord of the Rings books. __________________ King of the Dead: The dead do not suffer the living to pass. Aragorn: You will suffer me.

06-01-2006, 03:14 PM	#12
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	I know exactly what you meanBoromir. That's what sets Tolkien apart from the 'trashy fantasy' as I dub it that emerged after his works and into the present. The problem is is when in the plot, more complications keep arising. Like consider just the six Star Wars movies. Historically and plotwise, you could be satisfied, because Tolkien didnt go back and give more and more history that eventually might have explained some civil war in Rhun, and speculation is what we are used to. I would love to have more information on the other Dwarven Lines, but that will never happen, because even if C Tolien made some it wouldnt feel right, If you get me. It would have had to have been done in the original. Going back to SW, you would think after the dissolution of the Empire and destruction of the Emperor and Darth Vader would have been it. That equals the Downfall of Barad-dur. Now look what happens when you add more information that are too anticlimatic after the sixth movie. Consider if that had happened to Tolien. Luckily Tolkien wasnt as bough out as he might have been in corporate America. (and movies in general have more media) ________ Vaporizers Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-04-2011 at 12:00 AM.

06-14-2006, 05:27 AM	#13
Lindale Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: midway upon... in a forest dark Posts: 975	Personally I'm content... I mean, I'd like more, but if it's all that is, then it's all. No more little books like the ones with Starwars. And if there indeed is more, then wouldn't the stories get a bit confusing? __________________ The heart does things for reasons Reason itself cannot comprehend. - Blaise Pascal Legal Madness.