Elves socioeconomic system.

[mormegil]

I've always wondered and could not find an adequate answer anywhere but I want to know what the socioeconomic conditions of the elves were?

How did they choose their rulers? What, if any, real powers did their rulers posses?

I've seen some monetary discussion of Hobbits but not Elves, did they have such. I know that they enjoyed treasure and some even coveted it but what was its purpose? Was it used to purchase items or was their existance an utopian society where all shared equally with neither poor nor hungry? Was it requisite that they be employed, we see this in other societies but other than smith work I do not see much employement by way of the Elves. Is this ideal or is it indolence?

[littlemanpoet]

I think that Tolkien's set-up was that Elves were by nature able to turn a thing envisioned into reality. Supreme crafts-elves. I would wager that all elves, by definition, would have some ability that they could use to bring back to themselves at the very least self-sufficiency (Eol); but much more likely, their knowledge would have continued to develop and increase over thousands of years. Imagine whole community of Leonardo da Vinci types who didn't die but passed their knowledge on. I would think that elves would basically thrive. The only indications of economy that I can recall are the Elves in Mirkwood from The Hobbit, who send empty barrels back downstream. So there was no doubt trade with Men, which suggests that Elves also had what Men wanted.

[Elu Ancalime]

I think that (with an Arda withou Melkor) the elves could have created the utopian society, like that envisioned by Marx and Engels. They might have still had "Lords" but they could be strictly cultural and not political. Like what was stated in the Tolkien and Western Government thread, Tolkien himself would have preferred an Absolute Monarchy, but in Men that can not go uncoruppted, so the elves would only have had to estblish a "higher class" out of nessecity to protect themselves from Melkor. There is a story that Tolkien wrote late in life about how the first elves and founders of the Vanyar, Nolder, and Teleri were not Ingwe Finwe, and Elwe, but Imin, Tata, and Enel, wth their wives. it s called the "Cuivienyarna." The only online reference to it I found was on wikipedia. It may shed some light on how the elves "started out," if we consider it canon:Cuivienyarna
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[littlemanpoet]

It is interesting that the first thing that happens is the finding and claiming of sleeping Elves. Thus, the three eldest couples took ownership of the loyalty of the others.

It is interesting to me that this is a very late writing. I usually have doubts about Tolkien's latest writings because they often are attempts to resolve theological issues; but this appears to attempt to resolve an issue of feigned history, and as such, seems acceptable to me.

That said, I see an authoritative structure of political organization, with the seeds lord- and lady- ship rather than anything resembling the thought of Marx and Engels. From what writings of Tolkien do you derive such a conclusion, Elu?

[Lalwendë]

In the corrupted world that they lived in the Elves couldn't make a Utopian society as they were constantly beleagured and/or in conflict.

The Calaquendi and Moriquendi were deeply suspicious of each other, certainly in Beleriand. I think this is certainly understandable on the side of those Elves who had remained in Middle-earth as the return of the Noldor also brought with it the return of Morgoth and war. While the Noldor seem to feel they cannot always trust the Elves who have stayed. Even amongst the Noldor there is an incredible amount of hatred.

All of the Elves were subject to constant war, and this resulted in insular communities such as Lothlorien. I wonder just how Utopian a society could be if it was in a constant state of siege and defence. Freedoms must have been restricted to a great degree.

I also think that Elves would not necessarily have developed their Art to its full potential, especially as the Third Age came around. Less Elves were being born, and hence new creative minds were not coming into being, and some great minds must have departed Middle-earth for good. The Elves were also mixing less with other races and cultures and so their Art would not be absorbing and working with those influences. Maybe they were developing a particular Elven Art to a high degree, but I wonder just how good that could be without new ideas to work upon? That's a question relevant to our world too!

[Rhod the Red]

The social system of Elvish society is not covered really, an exception to the other races in his books. Other than absolute monarchs(not regressive), like in Mirkwood, Elves appear self-governing. Rivendell appears to be without government as we know it. The fact that some Elves are called 'lord' and 'lady' may just be a reward for brave deeds or something.

Calling Boromir a 'lord' of Men would be correct in the context Tolkein usues it, other trhan rulership. It can mean a great warrior or wise bystander, in Tolkiens usage