The Beard of Théoden - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Rune Son of Bjarne · 08-31-2006, 07:44 PM

A scene that I really dislike in The movies, is when Gandalf "cures" Théoden from Saruman. The change that happens in Théoden's appearances is simply too dramatic. All of the sudden his hair is brushed and his huge beard pretty much disappears.

I personally imagined the change to be less dramatic. . . More like a man discovering he is not as old as he thought. He would straighten his back, speak with a clearer voice maybe gain some glimpse in his eye. I know that you need to do it a bit more dramatic for it to work on film, but what was done was simply silly.

Is it only me who found this scene to drastic ?

radagastly · 08-31-2006, 08:01 PM

Absolutely not! I thought the whole thing was too drastic, and slightly mis-conceived. I prefer the more subtle working of Grima whisperings over years to the demonic-like possesion of Saruman. If Saruman was in such control of Theoden, what did he need Wormtongue for?

Rune Son of Bjarne · 08-31-2006, 08:24 PM

How could I forget that! You are so right, Grima is to no use in the film. Well exept being nasty and looking at Eowyn.

Essex · 09-01-2006, 03:44 AM

no, we needed grima in the film as movie Theoden was in a stupor and not running his state. so therefore Saruman needed someone in his place to do his bidding.

I think we are caught between a rock and a hard place with these scenes. I've never been entirely happy with tolkien's change to theoden. Gandalf takes him aside and says a few words in private to him then asks him to go outside.

seems a bit 'flimsy' to say the least. whereas jackson has gone the whole hog and read Gandalf's private words to theoden being an exorcism. so we have gone from one extreme to the other to be honest.

But I think it works well 'movie' wise though in having theoden being 'possesed' by Saruman, and gandalf ridding him of this control.

yeah his hair changed back quickly I admit, but then we the whole story is about a magical ring that can make you invisible, so if I believe that I'll believe the change in appearence of Theoden!!!!

Anguirel · 09-01-2006, 06:52 AM

Well, in principle this is exactly the sort of horror-movie Jackson importation that I loathe, detest, and condemn.

However, I have to admit I loved it and would never change it.

It provided what I found the most comic moment in the whole film trilogy-this exchange-

Gandalf: "The courtesy of your hall is somewhat lessened of late, Théoden King."

Grima: (like a condescending schoolmaster to a dimwitted pupil) "He is not welcome."

Théoden: "Whhhhhyyyy should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"

Grima: (like the said schoolmaster giving the said pupil a gold star) "A just question, my liege."

Cracks me up every time...

Lalaith · 09-01-2006, 07:38 AM

Quote:

when Gandalf "cures" Théoden from Saruman

What I don't like about the scene, and the ones that follow it, is that Gandalf doesn't actually seem to have done more than a cosmetic cure.
Book-Theoden, once his malaise has been lifted, is helpful, positive and cheerfully ready for battle.

Quote:

a kindly old man

, as Gandalf described him.

In the film, the allegedly cured Theoden spends most of the Helms Deep battle sulking in the cellar, muttering surly, unhelpful comments that belong to the Saruman-infected book-Theoden.

08-31-2006, 08:01 PM	#2
radagastly Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Washington, D. C., USA Posts: 299	Absolutely not! I thought the whole thing was too drastic, and slightly mis-conceived. I prefer the more subtle working of Grima whisperings over years to the demonic-like possesion of Saruman. If Saruman was in such control of Theoden, what did he need Wormtongue for? __________________ But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door.

09-01-2006, 06:52 AM	#5
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	Well, in principle this is exactly the sort of horror-movie Jackson importation that I loathe, detest, and condemn. However, I have to admit I loved it and would never change it. It provided what I found the most comic moment in the whole film trilogy-this exchange- Gandalf: "The courtesy of your hall is somewhat lessened of late, Théoden King." Grima: (like a condescending schoolmaster to a dimwitted pupil) "He is not welcome." Théoden: "Whhhhhyyyy should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?" Grima: (like the said schoolmaster giving the said pupil a gold star) "A just question, my liege." Cracks me up every time... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

09-01-2006, 03:44 AM	#4
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	no, we needed grima in the film as movie Theoden was in a stupor and not running his state. so therefore Saruman needed someone in his place to do his bidding. I think we are caught between a rock and a hard place with these scenes. I've never been entirely happy with tolkien's change to theoden. Gandalf takes him aside and says a few words in private to him then asks him to go outside. seems a bit 'flimsy' to say the least. whereas jackson has gone the whole hog and read Gandalf's private words to theoden being an exorcism. so we have gone from one extreme to the other to be honest. But I think it works well 'movie' wise though in having theoden being 'possesed' by Saruman, and gandalf ridding him of this control. yeah his hair changed back quickly I admit, but then we the whole story is about a magical ring that can make you invisible, so if I believe that I'll believe the change in appearence of Theoden!!!!