Beards - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

MatthewM · 02-17-2007, 12:21 PM

A question has been bugging me- I'm not familiar with the Silmarillion, but I heard that it is said that the people from the race of Númenor are beardless. Does this (if true) apply to all descendants of the Númenoreans? I can't imagine that it would, as I'm sure people from this high descent would mingle and some could have beards.

I'm talking mainly about characters such as Boromir, Aragorn, Faramir, and Denethor. I always picture Boromir and Aragorn with beards, more of a warrior like quality, I would say. I'm not sure about the other two, as Tolkien tells us that in Faramir and Denethor the Númenorean blood runs most truly. Boromir it did not as truly, so he could have surely had a beard. But as Boromir, Denethor, and Faramir are all described to be like in face and bear striking similarities to one another, the conflict becomes a little more complicated.

A simple matter, but I dwell on such little details. Any opinions? How do you see these characters, or the Númenorean people as a whole?

Raynor · 02-17-2007, 01:35 PM

In the essay Amroth and Nimrodel, Unfinished Tales, there is a passing refference to a note written around 1972, where Tolkien talked about the beardlessness of those who were descedants from elves (who themselves were beardless).

Legate of Amon Lanc · 02-17-2007, 02:43 PM

Since Raynor already provided the correct information which was asked for, I can only add my own opinion on the whole thing. Streaming from my imaginations, as you said, MatthewM, Faramir and Denethor 100% beardless, as well as Imrahil. They were all described as really "true-Númenorean-heritage-bearers"; and Faramir always seemed to me also quite young to have some really distinctive beard (lesser than Boromir at least); while Denethor was more of the high politician, I liked him in the film, almost as I imagined him (well, except the tomatoes; but no beard). On the other hand, thinking about it, I always imagined Imrahil with moustache... (although I think especially about him it is explicitely written that he was completely beardless)
Anyway: Aragorn and Boromir. I must say that now, after twisting my imagination with the movie characters popping up here and there, I have no problem in imagining Aragorn or Boromir bearded, somehow I even adopted Boromir-with-beard picture (but mainly because I have one picture of him bearded, by John Howe). But before the movies came out, I never could possibly have imagined Aragorn or Boromir with beards! It never came to my mind: and it was just natural, before I have read anything about beardless Númenoreans. Maybe Tolkien would have written about it if A&B were bearded?
I don't remember much how I felt when I first saw captions from the movie, but I think it was the short spot in TV where the pass of Caradhras was shown with both Aragorn and Boromir, and one word comes to my mind: BLASPHEMY!!!

MatthewM · 02-17-2007, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

. Maybe Tolkien would have written about it if A&B were bearded?

I'm not sure if he would have though, because you could really say the same thing about him having written something about them being beardless. I can imagine that he would have said something like "he was beardless, like his Númenorean ancestors" but alas! He doesn't give us many clues...it seems that Boromir at least could be seen as bearded or beardless, perhaps whichever way you want to think him, as Tolkien thought it necessary to note his lack of "true" Númenorean blood. Aragorn as well could go either way, in my opinion.

Thank you both for your input!

goldfinger · 02-17-2007, 07:46 PM

But Cirdan was an elf and he had a beard. Of course those elf men considered old in elf standards, do have beards.

MatthewM · 02-17-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldfinger

But Cirdan was an elf and he had a beard. Of course those elf men considered old in elf standards, do have beards.

This is a good point. I'm sure there were exceptions. I believe Cirdan is the only bearded elf we know of, correct?

02-17-2007, 12:21 PM	#1
MatthewM Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Posts: 628	Beards A question has been bugging me- I'm not familiar with the Silmarillion, but I heard that it is said that the people from the race of Númenor are beardless. Does this (if true) apply to all descendants of the Númenoreans? I can't imagine that it would, as I'm sure people from this high descent would mingle and some could have beards. I'm talking mainly about characters such as Boromir, Aragorn, Faramir, and Denethor. I always picture Boromir and Aragorn with beards, more of a warrior like quality, I would say. I'm not sure about the other two, as Tolkien tells us that in Faramir and Denethor the Númenorean blood runs most truly. Boromir it did not as truly, so he could have surely had a beard. But as Boromir, Denethor, and Faramir are all described to be like in face and bear striking similarities to one another, the conflict becomes a little more complicated. A simple matter, but I dwell on such little details. Any opinions? How do you see these characters, or the Númenorean people as a whole? __________________ "Loud and clear it sounds in the valleys of the hills...and then let all the foes of Gondor flee!" -Boromir, The Fellowship of the Ring

02-17-2007, 01:35 PM	#2
Raynor Eagle of the Star Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sarmisegethuza Posts: 1,058	In the essay Amroth and Nimrodel, Unfinished Tales, there is a passing refference to a note written around 1972, where Tolkien talked about the beardlessness of those who were descedants from elves (who themselves were beardless). __________________ "May the wicked become good. May the good obtain peace. May the peaceful be freed from bonds. May the freed set others free."

02-17-2007, 02:43 PM	#3
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	We don't want any beards! Since Raynor already provided the correct information which was asked for, I can only add my own opinion on the whole thing. Streaming from my imaginations, as you said, MatthewM, Faramir and Denethor 100% beardless, as well as Imrahil. They were all described as really "true-Númenorean-heritage-bearers"; and Faramir always seemed to me also quite young to have some really distinctive beard (lesser than Boromir at least); while Denethor was more of the high politician, I liked him in the film, almost as I imagined him (well, except the tomatoes; but no beard). On the other hand, thinking about it, I always imagined Imrahil with moustache... (although I think especially about him it is explicitely written that he was completely beardless) Anyway: Aragorn and Boromir. I must say that now, after twisting my imagination with the movie characters popping up here and there, I have no problem in imagining Aragorn or Boromir bearded, somehow I even adopted Boromir-with-beard picture (but mainly because I have one picture of him bearded, by John Howe). But before the movies came out, I never could possibly have imagined Aragorn or Boromir with beards! It never came to my mind: and it was just natural, before I have read anything about beardless Númenoreans. Maybe Tolkien would have written about it if A&B were bearded? I don't remember much how I felt when I first saw captions from the movie, but I think it was the short spot in TV where the pass of Caradhras was shown with both Aragorn and Boromir, and one word comes to my mind: BLASPHEMY!!! __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories

02-17-2007, 07:46 PM	#5
goldfinger Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: KC, Missouri Posts: 60	But Cirdan was an elf and he had a beard. Of course those elf men considered old in elf standards, do have beards.