I'm not a Jedi, but a ...

[alatar]

Forms! Forms! Forms! I'm so sick of forms!

Did you ever 'register' a item that you purchased, providing information about yourself in the hopes that, in completing the form, you will be able to make a claim later when said product breaks? You check boxes and fill in answers to questions about the most personal of things, like if you read books, how much money you have, if you are considering purchasing a computer in the next three months, etc. Other forms ask even more detailed information, like which race you belong to and what religion you prefer.

Even on governmental forms, I squirm at answering these last two as the choices provided really don't cover the answers that I would like to provide (especially when you know that phenotypes aren't genotypes), and as I grew in up in a place where I was taught that every year was 1984, I'm always hesitant at picking *any* choice for fear that I am then 'stereotyped.'

So many times, when I even provide information, I choose "Other." Sometimes, when choosing None of the above, you're given the option to write in what you really think. In the past I've indicated that I was a 'Half-Elf,' as I've always have had an affinity for those people, and no one really knows what 'istarian' means - if it's even a word. Anyway, think that I have multiple write in options for the race question, as the WoW and similar games have made fantasy 'races' more mainstream. For religion, on the other hand, I don't have a word that expresses how I feel. Other genres seemingly have had their input, as many have claimed, "Jedi," as an official response to religion preference, though I'm not sure where that word comes from, having never heard it before.

So the question then is, what, if I believed as, say Aragorn or Elrond or Frodo or Galadriel, would be my similar Tolkienesque response?

[Morthoron]

There is an excellent BBC documentary entitled 'Brief History of Disbelief' by Jonathan Miller, which regards the foundations of atheism and explores disbelief in general back to the Greek Philosophers like Democritus and Aristophanes. Have you seen it? It came to mind as I was reading your well-reasoned rant on role-calls.

Labels, it seems, are still a basic requirement in pigeonholing society in their proper places. Governments and corporations are still taking pages from William the Bastard's Domesday Book, and requiring us to regurgitate racial, religious and politicial affiliations (as well as our eating habits, musical preferences, and naughty proclivities) for the implicit purpose of catering to our every need; but, of course, we cynically realize that the actual purpose is to control us (I am feeling rather conspiratorial today).

As far as a Tolkienesque response, I am not sure exactly what you wish me to express in that regard. It seems Tolkien's societies were rather lax on commerce and taxation; ergo, I don't see a country like Gondor expending its energy on a census (I can't recall Tolkien mentioning taxation at all). Middle-earth was certainly segmented along racial lines; after all, there were significantly little mixing of the races (half-elves being rare in the extreme), and there was certainly distinct and pronounced political/geographic designations (either you belonged to the Shire or you were a durn for'ner).

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

(I am feeling rather conspiratorial today).

Been reading "Foucault's Pendulum" again, no doubt.

[Morthoron]

Just think, in some countries currently we would be beaten, ostracized or stoned for expressing such subversive religious views (a point made quite clear by Voltaire in my sig line). Thankfully Tolkien, although staunchly religious, did not demean his tale by overtly allegorical means. Which is why it can be enjoyed by folks worldwide no matter their religious beliefs (or disbeliefs as the case may be).

This, of course, allows me to go off on a tangent and repeat the lyrics to that Southern Baptist hymn 'Give Me That Old Time Religion', except taken one step further by that sly old folk singer, Pete Seeger:

Gimme that ole time religion,
Gimme that ole time religion,
Gimme that old time religion,
It's good enough for me.

Let us pray with Zarathustra,
Let us pray just like we used ta,
I'm a Zarathustra booster,
And it's good enough for me.

Let us pray like those old Druids,
They drank fermented fluids,
Waltzing naked through the woo-ids,
It's good enough for me.

Let us pray with Aphrodite,
Let us pray with Aphrodite,
She wears that see-through nightie,
And it's good enough for me.

Let us pray just like we ought'er,
Offer animals for slaughter,
Sacrifice our sons and daughters,
It's good enough for me.

I am sure we could add that good ol' Eru wearing a Ravi Shankar Nehru that he bought while touring Peru...ummm....never mind.

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I am sure we could add that good ol' Eru wearing a Ravi Shankar Nehru that he bought while touring Peru...ummm....never mind.

This caused me untold pain.

Good job!!!

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

I suppose I would say that I am Eruhini, a child of Eru, which of course all humans were, and are. I suspect Tolkien would not have approved of it as a basis for an organized religion, but he couldn't have argued with the concept. Besides, I'm not one for organized religions, anyway. I dance to a far too different drummer.

Pigeonholing is one of the most popular pastimes of obsessive controllers, and near always as I have experienced it, usually winds up being abusive. Businesses often call it "demographics," which is their way of figuring out whether or not you and your opinions are worthy of their consideration (all too often based on your age and/or income level). It stinks.

[radagastly]

Sorry, "Athiest" has always been my only answer. Then again, you can take any word and add "-ist" to the end of it, and create your own religion. The first one of those that comes to mind is "Davidist." The ATF burned them to the ground and then some. Who knows what ever really happened?

Doesn't matter.

"Tolkienist," is acceptable. "Eruan," might be a better word, but let's face it, Tolkien would never approve of any of this. He was a Catholic. He really believed it! I'm not asking you to, (I don't, I never have.) but if this is really the what you want, then here it is.

I hope you don't have a problem with it. It really means that you're doing things right.

[Mnemosyne]

I suppose if you wanted to put something down that would follow both Middle-earth itself and what Tolkien thought of it, you'd have to say that you're a Natural Religionist. Of course, that would work better if you're a hobbit-fancier than if you go after those who actually did have some exposure to the revealed religion of Middle-earth...

[Hakon]

This should be a game in Middle Earth Mirth. Lord of the Rings related religions. Here is one Frodoist. Seriously though sometime someone needs to write I worship Melkor or I worship Sauron on a form.

[Boo Radley]

I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've never heard the term Jedi before.
I thought Lucas had infiltrated every single minute corner of the planet.
And possibly then some.

And I don't know if I can answer your question or not as religion isn't something that's really talked about in Middle Earth as far as I can recall.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

I'm still wrapping my head around the fact that you've never heard the term Jedi before.

And though we live in the age of Google and now Bing, I figured that I'd still catch at least one with that falsehood; sorry that it was you.

And I don't know if I can answer your question or not as religion isn't something that's really talked about in Middle Earth as far as I can recall.

Assume that you believe that Tolkien's work was some type of revelation, or a way of living. How would you express that?

And thanks for the suggestion and thoughts, Morthoron.

[Boo Radley]

Originally Posted by alatar

And though we live in the age of Google and now Bing, I figured that I'd still catch at least one with that falsehood; sorry that it was you.

Arrgggghhhh! Bamboozled yet again! Curse my midwestern corn fed naiveté!!!

Assume that you believe that Tolkien's work was some type of revelation, or a way of living. How would you express that?

Illuvitarian? Reformed?
No, seriously, if I had read the Simarillion as if it were the Bible I'm still not sure if you could form a religion from it.
You have to admit, Illuvitar is a pretty hands off type of creator. There's not a whole lot of "Thou shalt do this" and "Thou shalt not do that, if thou knows what's good for thee!" in the histories.
Unless I'm forgetting something.

But I don't believe you can have much of a religion if you don't have a deity laying out ground rules.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Arrgggghhhh! Bamboozled yet again! Curse my midwestern corn fed naiveté!!!

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

But I don't believe you can have much of a religion if you don't have a deity laying out ground rules.

What about belief systems that don't have a deity, such as Buddhism?

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by alatar

What about belief systems that don't have a deity, such as Buddhism?

As far as political affiliations, were the hobbits squirearchical agrarians? Or would an anarcho-syndicalist commune be more appropriate?

I don't believe there were any Pantheistic worshippers -- like Bombadilian Unitarians. Eruistic Deists may be accounted a belief system in Valinor. There were more pagan demon worshippers (of Morgoth and Sauron) than any other given religion, wouldn't you say?

[Boo Radley]

OK, instead of "Deity", lets use the term Teacher. Buddha had a system of beliefs, rules, observations that if followed, would lead the believer to a state of enlightenment, or whatever.
There is still interaction and direction.
Not so much with Illuvitar. No burning bushes, no turning himself into a swan for a bit of slap and tickle, no hand writing on the wall.

But, going back to your original question:

...what, if I believed as, say Aragorn or Elrond or Frodo or Galadriel, would be my similar Tolkienesque response?

Chances are your response might be something along the lines of, "I am no member of a religion as I understand the term. Illuvitar created everything and everything is part of Illuvitar. My worship of Him is not required or would even be recognized.
And no, I don't want your magazine."

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by alatar

Forms! Forms! Forms! I'm so sick of forms!

Did you ever 'register' a item that you purchased, providing information about yourself in the hopes that, in completing the form, you will be able to make a claim later when said product breaks? You check boxes and fill in answers to questions about the most personal of things, like if you read books, how much money you have, if you are considering purchasing a computer in the next three months, etc. Other forms ask even more detailed information, like which race you belong to and what religion you prefer.

Off-topic– Alatar, are you sure you actually have to give that information in order to make a claim in the US? In Australia, all you need is proof of purchase. I'm just saying, I think those questions are a bit of a scam.