Who were the Ringwraiths? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gorin Icearms · 03-02-2002, 02:33 PM

I mean who were they before they went wraith. One was the Witch-king of Angmar, but who were the others?

Elven-Maiden · 03-02-2002, 02:39 PM

Weren't they the "Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die"? They were the 9 mortal kings that Sauron gave rings to.

Gorin Icearms · 03-02-2002, 02:41 PM

Yes but who were they?

obloquy · 03-02-2002, 02:44 PM

Postal workers.

Glenethor · 03-02-2002, 02:45 PM

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Elven-Maiden · 03-02-2002, 03:06 PM

Sorry, I don't know. I guess one of them must be Isildur's dad, though.

Joy · 03-02-2002, 03:57 PM

Elven-Maiden, Isildur's father, Elendil, was not one of the RingWraiths. Elendil led the Last Alliance with Gil-galad, and died in the Siege of Barad-dûr. His sword Narsil was broken in the battle, it was reclaimed by Isildur and with the broken shards of the sword, he cut the ring from Sauron's hand. This was the sword that was later reforged into Andúril, Aragorn's sword.

You remember Faramir's and Borimir's dream,

Quote:

Seek for the sword that was broken, for in Imladris it dwells.

Quote:

Part of Aragorn's Poem:
from the ashes a fire shall be woken,
a light from the shadows will spring,
renewed shall be blade that was broken,
the crownless again shall be king."

[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: Joy ]

Birdland · 03-02-2002, 04:05 PM

It doesn't seem to be recorded, unless Tolkien addressed it in his letters. They were all ensnared around the same time of the Second Age, and I wonder if they were not all allies or sub-cheiftains under King Angmar. Perhaps it was he who distributed the other rings, promising long life and power to them in exchange for their help in his wars.

Of course, that's just speculation. I have read nothing that would confirm that.

Voronwe · 03-02-2002, 04:07 PM

The name of only one of the ringwraith's is known: Khamul, the 'Black Easterling'. It is also known that 3 of the Ringwraiths were Numenoreans. Everything else, however, is a mystery. Not even the Witch King's real name is recorded.

Eowyn of Ithilien · 03-02-2002, 04:17 PM

all the Ringwraiths were Chiefs of Men corrupted, one by one, by Sauron. He gave them rings and thus ensnared them.

Kuruharan · 03-02-2002, 07:38 PM

Actually, I think it is possible to make some reasonable guesses into some of the details of the Nazgul.

I think it reasonable to suppose that in his lifetime the man that became the Witch-King was in fact a king. I would guess that he probably was not one of the Numenoreans, except that the Numenoreans were a cut above other men, and the Witch-King was a cut above the other Nazgul. Still I lean (for no explicable reason) towards a non-Numenorean origin for the Witch-King.

Khamul was obviously an Easterling of some sort. For the same inexplicable reason I tend to think that he was also a king while he was "alive."

Moving to the three Numenoreans (assuming that the Witch-King was not one of them) I think that it would be a fair bet that at one time one of them had been the king (or whatever other type of ruler) of the Numenorean colony at Umbar. (Yes, I know somebody will say, "but then why couldn't the Witch-King have been the ruler of Umbar?" I don't know so don't ask me!) For the other two, I always thought of them being wizards or sorcerers or something of that ilk.

For the rest, you would probably have a cross section of all the different types of people. Some Haradrim and other Southern folk, as well as various and sundry types of Easterlings. Maybe there was one from the Northmen as well.

Just some idle and unprovable speculation.
(But I don't think that my guesses are far out though.)

avarerniliel · 03-02-2002, 08:01 PM

In the little legacy/poem that tells a story about the ring, it tells about how 9 rings of power were given to men, and how they were doomed to die. They became wraiths when they were corrupted by the rings of power, and were connected and drawn to the ONE RING when it was on the bearer's finger.

Elendil was not a ring-wraith because he was out to stop the evil of Sauron, not to spread it.

As for the names of the ring-wraiths, all I know is that they were all kings of men, including the witch-king.

Kuruharan · 03-02-2002, 08:09 PM

I don't think that all of them were necessarily kings. I think that some of them may have been just really powerful sorcerers. I might be wrong on that point though.

Nazgûl Queen · 03-03-2002, 12:22 AM

<center><font color="red">My colleagues were great Kings and Sorcerors of the Black Numenoreans, Easterlings and Southerlings.

However, I personally was a captured princess of Fornost who was tortured and lost her memory, mindlessly accepting Sauron's ring and therefore becoming a Nazgul [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Fenrir · 03-03-2002, 11:19 AM

I would guess that the Witch-King was descended from the Edain but never actually went to Numenor. Only a guess though.

Glenethor · 03-03-2002, 01:29 PM

Which only goes to show:

Beware of those 'bearing gifts.' Like Annatar.
[img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Tolkien could've written another LoTR sized book on the Second Age, especially involving the seduction of the Nine to the Rings, who they were, where they were from. All I know is, I wouldn't want to meet one in a dark alley. Or two...Or Nine for that matter...

avarerniliel · 03-03-2002, 04:04 PM

No. They were all kings. As is clearly stated in both the movie and the books. After all, why just hand out 9 rings of power to random men walking by? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Kuruharan · 03-03-2002, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Men proved easier to ensnare. Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their days, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing.

-Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

From the way that is phrased I would assume that they were not all kings. If they were, why call them anything else?

Aralaithiel · 03-03-2002, 05:58 PM

I like the postal workers theory! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Seriously...there were some groups of men who had no real "kingdom" so to speak. They were loosely organized, so maybe the men in charge of those groups could be to whom Tolkien referred to. I think (not really able to recall anything clearly thanks to extra strength sinus meds right now) I read about a reference to them in Unfinished Tales.

avarerniliel · 03-03-2002, 10:21 PM

Exactly Kuruharan! Thank-you!

06-06-2002, 03:49 PM

I see the socities of the Eastelings as orgnized as clans, and the Hradrim in tribes, so they could have easly been kings as well as soccers, shamen, or witchdoctors,

Leto · 06-07-2002, 03:56 PM

Only two of the Nazgul are identified in writings of Tolkien...The Witch King of Angmar, (who I assume is one of the Numenoreans), and Khamul, Shadow of the East. In the Middle Earth collectible card game, they were all given names. Where these names came from, I have no idea.

#1 Witch King
#2 Khamul the Easterling
#3 Dwar of Waw
#4 Hoarmurath of Dir
#5 Akhorahil
#6 Ren the Unclean
#7 Adunaphel
#8 Indur Dawndeath
#9 Uvatha the Horseman

NicktheOrc · 06-22-2002, 12:05 AM

The Witch-King was called Murazor. He was one of the kings of the house of Numenor. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

obloquy · 06-22-2002, 03:31 AM

What NicktheOrc said is completely false.

06-23-2002, 10:39 AM

so who were they, isn't is said in one of the books? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Daniel Telcontar · 06-23-2002, 10:47 AM

Are you sure that the Witch-King was not a nazgûl before he made the realm of Angmar? I have always thought that he was a wraith before he made Angmar, because if he was still enjoying the fun it is to have a magical ring, why should he destroy Arnor? Wouldn't he have been to selfish to aid Sauron unless he was totally under Sauron's dominion?

Kuruharan · 06-24-2002, 09:27 PM

Quote:

I have always thought that he was a wraith before he made Angmar

You are correct sir.

02-25-2005, 11:39 PM

Murazor(witchking)
Khamul
Dwar
Indur
Akhorahil
Hoamurath
Adunaphel
Ren
Uvatha

Fingolfin II · 02-25-2005, 11:50 PM

The only Nazgul that J.R.R. Tolkien has given names to are the Witch-King of Angmar and Khamul the Easterling. Three of the Nazgul are said to 'be of high Numenorean race'. All the supposed 'names' given to the Nazgul are made up, either by the makers of trading cards or random websites. Or just randomly

.

A_Brandybuck · 02-26-2005, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Men proved easier to ensnare. Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their days, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing.

-Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

This quote, that Kuruharan has posted already before, does only imply, that they became mighty in their days, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old after they had received their Rings.
Consequently it could be, that some of the Nazgûl were normal Men, with no title or noble origin. The Rings made them mighty, it must not be, that they had been mighty before.
That let to the question, on which criteries Sauron has chosen the Ringbearers. Surely were most of them Númenórians, they are supposed to be more powerful as normal Men because of their origin. That there are at least some Númenórians, shows this footnote of Letter 156:

Quote:

There were evil Númenórians: Sauronians, but they do not come into this story, except remotely; as the wicked kings who had become Nazgûl or Ringwraiths.

And that not all are Númenórians is shown in the title of Khamûl: the Easterling.

narfforc · 02-26-2005, 05:24 AM

The only name Tolkien mentions in connection with the nazgul is Khamul, there is a slight possibility that Gothmog the lieutenantof Morgul may have been a nazgul. The Witch-King of Angmar is a title not a name. Tolkien wrote books, he didnt sanction any card games, computer games or role-playing games, so which nutter has decided to give names to the nazgul is irrelevent. So to end all the speculation, here are the only words that matter:

1. The Witch-King of Angmar.

2. Khamul the Black Easterling.

3. Gothmog(A big maybe).

4. Nazgul 4.

5. Nazgul 5.

6. Nazgul 6.

7. Nazgul 7.

8. Nazgul 8.

9. Nazgul 9.

So until a hidden manuscript of Tolkiens turns up naming them Tom, Dick and Harry, we will have to call them The Nazgul.

Thinlómien · 02-28-2005, 07:46 AM

Gothmog was a commander of the armies of Mordor, but was he a nazgul?
I don't think so. (But I don't know what was he then...)

03-02-2002, 04:17 PM	#10
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	all the Ringwraiths were Chiefs of Men corrupted, one by one, by Sauron. He gave them rings and thus ensnared them. __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

03-02-2002, 07:38 PM	#11
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	Actually, I think it is possible to make some reasonable guesses into some of the details of the Nazgul. I think it reasonable to suppose that in his lifetime the man that became the Witch-King was in fact a king. I would guess that he probably was not one of the Numenoreans, except that the Numenoreans were a cut above other men, and the Witch-King was a cut above the other Nazgul. Still I lean (for no explicable reason) towards a non-Numenorean origin for the Witch-King. Khamul was obviously an Easterling of some sort. For the same inexplicable reason I tend to think that he was also a king while he was "alive." Moving to the three Numenoreans (assuming that the Witch-King was not one of them) I think that it would be a fair bet that at one time one of them had been the king (or whatever other type of ruler) of the Numenorean colony at Umbar. (Yes, I know somebody will say, "but then why couldn't the Witch-King have been the ruler of Umbar?" I don't know so don't ask me!) For the other two, I always thought of them being wizards or sorcerers or something of that ilk. For the rest, you would probably have a cross section of all the different types of people. Some Haradrim and other Southern folk, as well as various and sundry types of Easterlings. Maybe there was one from the Northmen as well. Just some idle and unprovable speculation. (But I don't think that my guesses are far out though.) __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

03-02-2002, 08:09 PM	#13
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,593	I don't think that all of them were necessarily kings. I think that some of them may have been just really powerful sorcerers. I might be wrong on that point though. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

03-03-2002, 12:22 AM	#14
Nazgûl Queen Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Minas Morgul Posts: 75	<center><font color="red">My colleagues were great Kings and Sorcerors of the Black Numenoreans, Easterlings and Southerlings. However, I personally was a captured princess of Fornost who was tortured and lost her memory, mindlessly accepting Sauron's ring and therefore becoming a Nazgul [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ - The Nazgûl they were; the Ringwraiths, the Enemy's most terribly servants; darkness went with them and they cried with the voices of death -

03-03-2002, 11:19 AM	#15
Fenrir Wight Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Nevrast Posts: 103	I would guess that the Witch-King was descended from the Edain but never actually went to Numenor. Only a guess though. __________________ Fearlessness is better than a faint-heart for any man who puts his nose out of doors. The length of my life and the day of my death were fated long ago.

03-02-2002, 02:33 PM	#1
Gorin Icearms Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 67	Who were the Ringwraiths? I mean who were they before they went wraith. One was the Witch-king of Angmar, but who were the others? __________________ The Moon is Rising! Oh hey, I'm a wight now. WORSHIP ME IN ALL MY WIGHTNESS!!! MUAHAHAHA!!

03-02-2002, 02:39 PM	#2
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	Weren't they the "Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die"? They were the 9 mortal kings that Sauron gave rings to. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

03-02-2002, 02:41 PM	#3
Gorin Icearms Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 67	Yes but who were they? __________________ The Moon is Rising! Oh hey, I'm a wight now. WORSHIP ME IN ALL MY WIGHTNESS!!! MUAHAHAHA!!

03-02-2002, 02:44 PM	#4
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	Postal workers.

03-02-2002, 02:45 PM	#5
Glenethor Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow Posts: 176	[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people, living life in peace..." Dr. Winston O'Boogie

03-02-2002, 03:06 PM	#6
Elven-Maiden Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 297	Sorry, I don't know. I guess one of them must be Isildur's dad, though. __________________ Tout ce qui est or ne brille pas, Tous ceux qui errent ne sont pas perdus. Mobilis in Mobile

03-02-2002, 04:05 PM	#8
Birdland Ghastly Neekerbreeker Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the banks of the mighty Scioto Posts: 1,751	It doesn't seem to be recorded, unless Tolkien addressed it in his letters. They were all ensnared around the same time of the Second Age, and I wonder if they were not all allies or sub-cheiftains under King Angmar. Perhaps it was he who distributed the other rings, promising long life and power to them in exchange for their help in his wars. Of course, that's just speculation. I have read nothing that would confirm that.

03-02-2002, 04:07 PM	#9
Voronwe Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Gondolin Posts: 413	The name of only one of the ringwraith's is known: Khamul, the 'Black Easterling'. It is also known that 3 of the Ringwraiths were Numenoreans. Everything else, however, is a mystery. Not even the Witch King's real name is recorded. __________________ "If you would be a real seeker after truth, you must at least once in your life doubt, as far as possible, all things." -- René Descartes

03-02-2002, 08:01 PM	#12
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	In the little legacy/poem that tells a story about the ring, it tells about how 9 rings of power were given to men, and how they were doomed to die. They became wraiths when they were corrupted by the rings of power, and were connected and drawn to the ONE RING when it was on the bearer's finger. Elendil was not a ring-wraith because he was out to stop the evil of Sauron, not to spread it. As for the names of the ring-wraiths, all I know is that they were all kings of men, including the witch-king.

03-03-2002, 01:29 PM	#16
Glenethor Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Far from the twisted reach of crazy sorrow Posts: 176	Which only goes to show: Beware of those 'bearing gifts.' Like Annatar. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] Tolkien could've written another LoTR sized book on the Second Age, especially involving the seduction of the Nine to the Rings, who they were, where they were from. All I know is, I wouldn't want to meet one in a dark alley. Or two...Or Nine for that matter... __________________ "Imagine there's no countries, it isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too. Imagine all the people, living life in peace..." Dr. Winston O'Boogie

03-03-2002, 04:04 PM	#17
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	No. They were all kings. As is clearly stated in both the movie and the books. After all, why just hand out 9 rings of power to random men walking by? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

03-03-2002, 05:58 PM	#19
Aralaithiel Ghost Eldaran Queen Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A remote mountain in Valinor Posts: 353	I like the postal workers theory! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Seriously...there were some groups of men who had no real "kingdom" so to speak. They were loosely organized, so maybe the men in charge of those groups could be to whom Tolkien referred to. I think (not really able to recall anything clearly thanks to extra strength sinus meds right now) I read about a reference to them in Unfinished Tales. __________________ A lelyat, wen! (Quenya Elvish for "You go, girl!"

03-03-2002, 10:21 PM	#20
avarerniliel Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: In front of the moniter... Posts: 58	Exactly Kuruharan! Thank-you!

06-06-2002, 03:49 PM	#21
Oakenshild Guest Posts: n/a	I see the socities of the Eastelings as orgnized as clans, and the Hradrim in tribes, so they could have easly been kings as well as soccers, shamen, or witchdoctors,

06-07-2002, 03:56 PM	#22
Leto Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arrakis Posts: 16	Only two of the Nazgul are identified in writings of Tolkien...The Witch King of Angmar, (who I assume is one of the Numenoreans), and Khamul, Shadow of the East. In the Middle Earth collectible card game, they were all given names. Where these names came from, I have no idea. #1 Witch King #2 Khamul the Easterling #3 Dwar of Waw #4 Hoarmurath of Dir #5 Akhorahil #6 Ren the Unclean #7 Adunaphel #8 Indur Dawndeath #9 Uvatha the Horseman

06-22-2002, 12:05 AM	#23
NicktheOrc Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Witch-Realm of Angmar, a.k.a. some place in Australia Posts: 40	The Witch-King was called Murazor. He was one of the kings of the house of Numenor. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Hmmm... Spider-Man getting the One Ring would be an interesting crossover...

06-22-2002, 03:31 AM	#24
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	What NicktheOrc said is completely false.

06-23-2002, 10:39 AM	#25
Halbador Guest Posts: n/a	so who were they, isn't is said in one of the books? [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

06-23-2002, 10:47 AM	#26
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	Are you sure that the Witch-King was not a nazgûl before he made the realm of Angmar? I have always thought that he was a wraith before he made Angmar, because if he was still enjoying the fun it is to have a magical ring, why should he destroy Arnor? Wouldn't he have been to selfish to aid Sauron unless he was totally under Sauron's dominion? __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

02-25-2005, 11:39 PM	#28
ImmortalKing Guest Posts: n/a	the names of the nazgul Murazor(witchking) Khamul Dwar Indur Akhorahil Hoamurath Adunaphel Ren Uvatha

02-25-2005, 11:50 PM	#29
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	The only Nazgul that J.R.R. Tolkien has given names to are the Witch-King of Angmar and Khamul the Easterling. Three of the Nazgul are said to 'be of high Numenorean race'. All the supposed 'names' given to the Nazgul are made up, either by the makers of trading cards or random websites. Or just randomly . __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

02-26-2005, 05:24 AM	#31
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	The only name Tolkien mentions in connection with the nazgul is Khamul, there is a slight possibility that Gothmog the lieutenantof Morgul may have been a nazgul. The Witch-King of Angmar is a title not a name. Tolkien wrote books, he didnt sanction any card games, computer games or role-playing games, so which nutter has decided to give names to the nazgul is irrelevent. So to end all the speculation, here are the only words that matter: 1. The Witch-King of Angmar. 2. Khamul the Black Easterling. 3. Gothmog(A big maybe). 4. Nazgul 4. 5. Nazgul 5. 6. Nazgul 6. 7. Nazgul 7. 8. Nazgul 8. 9. Nazgul 9. So until a hidden manuscript of Tolkiens turns up naming them Tom, Dick and Harry, we will have to call them The Nazgul.

02-28-2005, 07:46 AM	#32
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Gothmog was a commander of the armies of Mordor, but was he a nazgul? I don't think so. (But I don't know what was he then...)