did shadowfax leave? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Ithildin · 02-07-2003, 11:49 AM

did shadowfax leave Middle-Earth with Gandalf at the end???
it is not explicitly stated in the works..

they were pretty good friends, so he did? right??
Do you know?
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

HCIsland · 02-07-2003, 02:18 PM

Is it safe for me to put in an emphatic no?

H.C.

Naldoriathil · 02-07-2003, 02:48 PM

Although, it is not mentioned in ROTK I doubt it VERY much. Shadowfax was not a ring bearer so it is pretty unlikely that he would have gone with Gandalf to the Grey Havens. Read the book next time....sorry if thats a little harsh! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

TolkienGurl · 02-07-2003, 03:10 PM

I have always believed that Shadowfax departed from Middle-earth with Gandalf. But unless Tolkien specifically stated it somewhere, we can only guess at the truth - as it is with a lot of things in Middle-earth.

T.G.

[ February 07, 2003: Message edited by: TolkienGurl ]

obloquy · 02-07-2003, 03:27 PM

Posts (and sometimes posters) lose all credibility when they include any variation on the phrase 'I read it in a Tolkien guide.'

TolkienGurl · 02-07-2003, 03:42 PM

At the end of RotK Gandalf is at the Havens with "a great, grey horse". I have always thought it was Shadowfax. Why wouldn't it be?

Also notable: Gandalf had said in TTT "Far let us ride now together, and part not in this world again!" (bold is mine)

I apologize, obloquy, for sounding like a know it all in my previous post. I didn't realize that Tolkien Guides are not considered very reliable. Thanks for letting me know.

T.G.

Telchar · 02-07-2003, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Then Círdan led them to the Havens, and there was a white ship lying, and upon the quay beside a great grey horse stood a figure robed all in white awaiting them. As he turned and came towards them Frodo saw that Gandalf now wore openly upon his hand the Third Ring, Narya the Great, and the stone upon it was red as fire.

Quote:

Gandalf caressed him. 'It is a long way from Rivendell, my friend,' he said; 'but you are wise and swift and come at need. Far let us ride now together, and part not in this world again!'

These two quotes sprung to mind...

Like Obloguy I cant take anything like 'The Tolkien Companion' or anything else written by David Day serious!! But I have always felt certain that Shadowfax went over the Sea. The two quotes above argues on that point, I think. Secondly Shadowfax is stated in LOTR to be one of the Mearas, desendted from Nahar, the divine horse of Orome - that speaks for that Shadowfax was allowed to sail to Eressea or Aman. Thirdly he was probably the most valuable possesion of Gandalf at the end of the 3rd Age - And I think he had pretty big word to say ;o)

Cheers Telchar

the witch king · 02-07-2003, 04:39 PM

i would like to think shadowfax went to Aman but if its not wrote yes or no i gess we'l never know.

Tar Elenion · 02-07-2003, 07:52 PM

JRRT addressed this subject in Letter 268:

Quote:

From a letter to Miss A. P. Northey 19 January 1965
I think Shadowfax certainly went with Gandalf [across the Sea], though this is not stated. I feel it is better not to state everything (and indeed it is more realistic, since in chronicles and accounts of 'real' history, many facts that some enquirer would like to know are omitted, and the truth has to be discovered or guessed from such evidence as there is). I should argue so: Shadowfax came of a special race (II 126,129, III 346)1 being as it were an Elvish equivalent of ordinary horses : his 'blood' came from 'West over Sea'. It would not be unfitting for him to 'go West'. Gandalf was not 'dying', or going by a special grace to the Western Land, before passing on 'beyond the circles of the world': he was going home, being plainly one of the 'immortals', an angelic emissary of the angelic governors (Valar) of the Earth. He would take or could take what he loved. Gandalf was last seen riding Shadowfax (III 276). He must have ridden to the Havens, and it is inconceivable that he would [have] ridden any beast but Shadowfax; so Shadowfax must have been there. A chronicler winding up a long tale, and for the moment moved principally by the sorrow of those left behind (himself among them!) might omit mention of the horse; but had the great horse also shared in the grief of sundering, he could hardly have been forgotten.

Kalimac · 02-07-2003, 10:05 PM

Tar Elenion - thanks! That should probably settle it.

I had always rather thought that Gandalf and Shadowfax went together, mostly due to the "do not let us part in this world again" quote, though I was wondering whether "this world" could be interpreted to mean just Middle-Earth, or whether the Undying Lands could be included in that statement as well. As for Shadowfax not being a Ringbearer ( [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) - well, Gimli was allowed to accompany Legolas some two hundred-odd years later, due to the special nature of their friendship (and I mean that in an entirely G-rated sense). I suppose we could see Shadowfax as a parallel case - an exception made for a firm friend.

02-07-2003, 11:49 AM	#1
Ithildin Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 11	did shadowfax leave? did shadowfax leave Middle-Earth with Gandalf at the end??? it is not explicitly stated in the works.. they were pretty good friends, so he did? right?? Do you know? [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

02-07-2003, 02:18 PM	#2
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	Is it safe for me to put in an emphatic no? H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-07-2003, 02:48 PM	#3
Naldoriathil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	Although, it is not mentioned in ROTK I doubt it VERY much. Shadowfax was not a ring bearer so it is pretty unlikely that he would have gone with Gandalf to the Grey Havens. Read the book next time....sorry if thats a little harsh! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "He is Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Heir to the Throne of Gondor!"

02-07-2003, 03:10 PM	#4
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	I have always believed that Shadowfax departed from Middle-earth with Gandalf. But unless Tolkien specifically stated it somewhere, we can only guess at the truth - as it is with a lot of things in Middle-earth. T.G. [ February 07, 2003: Message edited by: TolkienGurl ] __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

02-07-2003, 03:42 PM	#6
TolkienGurl Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 637	At the end of RotK Gandalf is at the Havens with "a great, grey horse". I have always thought it was Shadowfax. Why wouldn't it be? Also notable: Gandalf had said in TTT "Far let us ride now together, and part not in this world again!" (bold is mine) I apologize, obloquy, for sounding like a know it all in my previous post. I didn't realize that Tolkien Guides are not considered very reliable. Thanks for letting me know. T.G. __________________ Hopes fail. An end comes. We have only a little time to wait now. We are lost in ruin and downfall and there is no escape. -Frodo My Livejournal

02-07-2003, 03:27 PM	#5
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	Posts (and sometimes posters) lose all credibility when they include any variation on the phrase 'I read it in a Tolkien guide.'

02-07-2003, 04:39 PM	#8
the witch king Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor Posts: 201	i would like to think shadowfax went to Aman but if its not wrote yes or no i gess we'l never know. __________________ 'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.

02-07-2003, 10:05 PM	#10
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Tar Elenion - thanks! That should probably settle it. I had always rather thought that Gandalf and Shadowfax went together, mostly due to the "do not let us part in this world again" quote, though I was wondering whether "this world" could be interpreted to mean just Middle-Earth, or whether the Undying Lands could be included in that statement as well. As for Shadowfax not being a Ringbearer ( [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]) - well, Gimli was allowed to accompany Legolas some two hundred-odd years later, due to the special nature of their friendship (and I mean that in an entirely G-rated sense). I suppose we could see Shadowfax as a parallel case - an exception made for a firm friend. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.