Seven Stars and Seven Stones

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Ailios

In RoTK Tolkien writes in the index, where he explicitly refers to the rhyme, "[the] Seven stars, of Elendil and his captains. ... [They] originally represented to single stars on the banners of each of seven ships (of 9 [three times three]) that bore a palantir; in Gondor the seven stars were set about a white-flowered tree, over which the Kings set a winged crown."

Aha! I came looking for this, because the 'seven stars' in Gandalf's poem have always bothered me. The poem was quoted to explain the Seven Stones, and we see a lot of the One White Tree, but the stars seemed to just be there to take up space! Obviously I should have checked the index, because... I guess that's where you find worldbuilding these days?

Originally Posted by Amarie of the Vanyar

Iargwath, in the heraldry page you linked it is said that they were five-pointed stars, and, even though, I like your explanation that this is because of the shape of the island of Númenor, in the index of RotK it is said that they were six-pointed

This worries me, because under 'Elendil' in the Google Books copy of RotK, I find the words 'Seven Stars of Elendil and his captains, had five rays...' This version of the index does not include an extensive entry under 'Stars, as emblems' - it just redirects to Elendil.

So which is it? Are the stars on the flag of Gondor five- or six-pointed? The five-ray version appears to be from the 50th Anniversary edition, which [urly="http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=11338&page=2"]this thread[/URL] suggests featured an all-new, non-Tolkien index. So... is this simply a mistake, or is it a reversion to Tolkien's original intent? Is there anyone with a copy of the Readers' Guide who can shed any light on the question?

And... are they real objects, or not? The index (either version) says:

Seven Stars of Elendil and his captains... originally represented the single stars on the banners of each of seven ships (of 9) that bore a palantir; in Gondor the seven stars were set about a white-flowered tree, over which the Kings set a winged crown

They could be jewels worn by Elendil and six of his captains, with the Elendilmir being the primary one; but that would mean the jewels were put in place after the banners on the ships. Or they could be what it says - seven stars on seven banners. But then they're essentially just a stand-in for the Stones, which are already named in the song... I admit I would prefer them to be something that actually existed, but that might just be wistful thinking.

hS