Melkor; Evil by Will or Evil by Nature?

[Nar]

Oh, without a doubt, Lord Gothmog, I agree with you, Manwe was wrong there:

Some would view his treatment of the Elves who did not come to Aman in the first place and the Noldor who left, in just the terms you say he doesn't seem to have shown.

However, I must say that though I think Manwe was defining good too narrowly, showing a lack of neighborly imagination, succumbing to the besetting sins of the 'teacher's pet,' he never became 'fallen' in the sense that Melkor did, going against Illuvatar and sewing desolation across Middle-Earth. If flawed (in my opinion also), he remained, like Aule, basically in accord with Illuvatar. When I said 'fallen' I meant something more than 'made one or two mistakes.'

Of course, as Manwe was leader of the Valar, even one or two mistakes would have extensive consequences-- still, that's not the same as deliberately seeking ruin. Manwe eventually changed his policy and came to the aid of middle earth. To take a real world example from English history, Cromwell was someone who, in my opinion, actually fell through narrow self-righteousness: an unimaginative definition of good narrowly defined, leading to tyranny. I don't see Manwe as a Cromwell.

I do, however, think evil can result from something other than chaos or the archetypal unconscious or too much heavy metal or, heaven protect us, modern music's dissonance [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] or whatever else we're meaning by 'dark side.' (For any beleagured modern music fans, sorry for the cheap crack; I actually own the sheet music to Schoenberg's 'Book of Hanging Gardens' -- I can't play it, but I like to look at it sometimes.)

I'm glad you seem to agree about the Valar's different aspects, what about free will within a specific Vala's mission, free will that does not involve the great question of allegience or good/evil: If Aule chooses to make a mountain range to the north, rather than a grassy plain just there, can't that be considered an excercise of free will, even though it doesn't involve a dark/light, obedience/disobedience or charity/cruelty choice?