How many Istari came to Middle-earth?

[The Saucepan Man]

Thanks for the confirmation on Tuor's fate, Legolas. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] My understanding had come from speculation on other threads that he and Idril never reached Aman.

Nevertheless, without confirmation such as that, the words "it is said" still convey to me a sense of uncertainty as to whether what is said to have happened did in fact happen. And I am still not convinced that there is any unambiguous confirmation that the Istari numbered only five (although I remain open to persuasion [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] ).

i.e. 'We don't know how many Ainur there are, but of those that were sent to our area of Middle-earth, we know of at least five.'

But surely that does not reflect the correct meaning of "chiefs". It does not mean "those that we know about". It means "the main ones or leaders". Which suggests to me that there must have been others.

It's very possible whoever writing that essay inside of the story would not have known everything there is to know - it's said that only Cirdan, Elrond, and Galadriel would've known of the Istari's origins (during the Third Age); naturally anyone else would be uncertain of the number, knowing only the five that have 'been said' to come at the bidding of the Valar.

But the text is making a positive assertion: "of those that came, there were five chiefs". Which is in contrast to the less positive "it is said there were five" Istari.

On reflecting on the points made here, one further theory has occurred to me. Assuming that the reference to "the Order" in the quote in question is to the Order of the Ainur, it might mean that there were a number of emissaries who were of the Ainur and that they were led by five "chiefs". And those five chiefs were the Istari. So, only five Istari were sent, but they were accompanied by lesser Maia who were also emissaries of the Valar.

The problem with this is that, to my knowledge, we never hear of these "lesser" Maiar emissaries. And what is the point of alluding to their existence in this quote if they are never mentioned and play no discernible part in the struggle against Sauron? But it seems to me to be the only way that the sentence can be interpreted in a way that does not signify that there were more than five Istari.

Edit: Yes, Rumil, I too have always believed that the Istari numbered only five, but this extract from Unfinished Tales has led me to wonder whether that is a product of a combination of convention and the fact that we only ever hear of five.

But, when you refer to a meeting of the 'White Wizards', don't you mean a meeting of the White Council (ie Gandalf, Saruman and selected Elves)?

[ July 11, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]