How would it all of ended if... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Kin-strife · 01-18-2003, 10:58 AM

As I assume most of us know the Necromancer referred to in The Hobbit was finally revealed, in The LOTR, to be none other than the 2nd and 3rd ages' favourite whipping boy Sauron. However, we also know that the whole ring of power idea was a brand new one not devised until the writing of the Lord of the Rings. One thing that can never be said of Tolkien is that he didn't think things through. So my question, to those resident pundits, who've actually waded through the entire History of Middle-earth series is: is there any known conception of the rise and, consequently, the fall of Sauron in the 3rd age before LOTR was thought up or does it all stop cold after the Hobbit? Or was Tolkien himself not yet aware that the Necromancer was Sauron at the time he was writing The Hobbit?

The reason I ask this is because I've always been interested in the way that the LOTR is generally seen (by me at any rate) as an end to the mythology. It shows the Elves leaving Middle-earth, the ever increasing self-imposed isolation of the Dwarves, the beginning of the Dominion of men and the general passing of all that readers would find 'other-worldly' in the mythology. The fact that this poignant farewell (especially at the Grey havens) to the fantasy, that almost acts as a cue for the entrance of real history, came into being from a happy accident when Tolkiens sequel to The Hobbit spiralled out of control has always made me wonder. Would the mythology have had any final point of closure (I hate that word) if Tolkien had decided not to write a sequel to The Hobbit? Since true myth can never be said to have a beginning or an end was Tolkien's myth not supposed to? Would the writings on the descendants of the Nùmenòreans in Middle-earth, as given in the appendices to LOTR, ever have come into being? Have I completely misinterpreted the LOTR and, if so, will someone please set me straight immediately? If anyone can give any insight whatsoever into any of these questions (much more than originally intended) I'd be very grateful. Funny how this post has sort of spiralled out of control on me much like Tolkien's book and Niggle's leaf.

01-18-2003, 10:58 AM	#1
Kin-strife Haunting Spirit Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Dublin, Ireland Posts: 58	How would it all of ended if... As I assume most of us know the Necromancer referred to in The Hobbit was finally revealed, in The LOTR, to be none other than the 2nd and 3rd ages' favourite whipping boy Sauron. However, we also know that the whole ring of power idea was a brand new one not devised until the writing of the Lord of the Rings. One thing that can never be said of Tolkien is that he didn't think things through. So my question, to those resident pundits, who've actually waded through the entire History of Middle-earth series is: is there any known conception of the rise and, consequently, the fall of Sauron in the 3rd age before LOTR was thought up or does it all stop cold after the Hobbit? Or was Tolkien himself not yet aware that the Necromancer was Sauron at the time he was writing The Hobbit? The reason I ask this is because I've always been interested in the way that the LOTR is generally seen (by me at any rate) as an end to the mythology. It shows the Elves leaving Middle-earth, the ever increasing self-imposed isolation of the Dwarves, the beginning of the Dominion of men and the general passing of all that readers would find 'other-worldly' in the mythology. The fact that this poignant farewell (especially at the Grey havens) to the fantasy, that almost acts as a cue for the entrance of real history, came into being from a happy accident when Tolkiens sequel to The Hobbit spiralled out of control has always made me wonder. Would the mythology have had any final point of closure (I hate that word) if Tolkien had decided not to write a sequel to The Hobbit? Since true myth can never be said to have a beginning or an end was Tolkien's myth not supposed to? Would the writings on the descendants of the Nùmenòreans in Middle-earth, as given in the appendices to LOTR, ever have come into being? Have I completely misinterpreted the LOTR and, if so, will someone please set me straight immediately? If anyone can give any insight whatsoever into any of these questions (much more than originally intended) I'd be very grateful. Funny how this post has sort of spiralled out of control on me much like Tolkien's book and Niggle's leaf. __________________ "Come away, O human child!/ To the waters and the wild/With a faery hand in hand,/ For the world's more full of weeping than you can understand."