Dragons and Balrogs

[gorthaur_cruel]

While I am aware that this discussion is nothing new, and has already been brought up several times, the last post on it was on 2002, unless this forum's search function missed out some. While reading those, there were several points that have not been brought up, so I'd like to open up this debate again, if u don't mind

So then, who was the greater evil - dragons or balrogs? I personally lean towards the dragons, and these are my reasons.

First, Dragon-fire could melt and consume the rings of power, but balrog-fire could not, suggesting that dragon fire is more powerful than balrog fire. Why? When Gandalf fought the balrog, Narya is unaffected. Of course, it could be that Gandalf did not have Narya with him at that time, but that seems doubtful. First of all, LotR says that Gandalf now "openly" wore Narya at the Grey Havens. This implies that he had it with him the whole time, just not openly. Second; what's the point of having Narya if he's not going to use it? He's not the lord of some realm like Galadriel or Elrond, but a wanderer. It cannot be put to use unless he has it with him. The only fact that conflicts with this is why Saruman did not take Narya when he held Gandalf captive. It is obvious that he knew about Gandalf and Narya. For that, I have no answer. Perhaps Saruman forgot. Anyway, Gandalf never mentions that balrog-fire is enough to destroy the rings.

Second, Glaurung had balrogs in his train, implying that he was leading them. It seems doubtful as to whether balrogs would follow a weaker creature.

Thirdly, in the War of Wrath, the forces of the Valar had no trouble defeating the balrogs. It is when Morgoth unleashed the winged dragons under Ancalagon that they were held at bay for a while.

Balrogs are definitely maiar, but dragons may be maiar too. We do not know, so in that aspect, I'll give the balrogs the advantage. However, there are numerous cases in which a non-ainu defeats an ainu. Elves have killed balrogs before, Huan defeated Sauron(though Huan is another potential maia), Luthien cast a sleeping spell on Morgoth and there are several other instances, I'm sure. Therefore, just because balrogs are maiar does not make them automatically greater than dragons.

Then we have the argument that it took mightier warriors (Gandalf, Ecthelion, Glorfindel) to kill a balrog. However, we know that Gandalf the Grey is considerably less powerful than Gandalf the White, who was responsible for much of Gandalf's war aspects. Gandalf was defeated in The Hobbit by a few wargs, and was about to commit suicide, taking several wolves with him to death. That same Gandalf the Grey defeated a balrog, so it stands to reason that a bunch of wargs are enough to take down a balrog. However, we know that Glaurung has almost single handedly destroyed armies that would've defeated those wolves. Also, Ecthelion and Glorfindel are not necessarily greater warriors than Turin and Earendil (OK, fine. They're better than Bard and Fram ). Earendil, by that time, is holy, and IMO, more than a match against any maia. Just the light of Earendil scares Shelob and breaks the will of the Silent Watchers. Turin is possibly the greatest warrior of all time. He is much more powerful, IMO, then either Glorfindel or Ecthelion. Why? First, he's the son of Hurin, another potential "greatest warrior". However, my main reason is this: while HoME is not exactly canon, if it does not conflict with canon books, I believe that it must be taken into account. In Dagor Dagorath, the Last Battle in which Arda is destroyed, Morgoth returns, and so does Turin. It is Turin who deals Morgoth the death stroke once and for all.

The dragon-spell suggests that dragons are capable of the "spiritual" sort of fighting that many people use to make balrogs seem better. Also, dragons are very clever and capable of speech. It is not said whether any balrog has either of these qualities.

Both dragons are balrogs are capable of using fire, so it seems likely that fire does not affect either of these creatures. Thus, we must look to the other weapons that they possess. Dragons can use their teeth, claws, tails, and size. Balrogs, however, have a whip of flames, a mane of fire, and...a sword like a stabbing tongue of fire. The only non-fiery weapon a balrog is seen to possess is Gothmog's black axe.

Now, I'd like to hear some arguments