**Ruin of Doriath - Pre-Revision speculation/proposal thread**

[Maédhros]

I do not see the hunt as a potential way to make the story that Thingol was lured beyond the Girdle more plausible. As I said, I think it just as plausible that Thingol was lured outside in either case. For me, the decision comes down, very simply, to the question of Tolkien's intention at the time of the note to TY.

But Findegil's point has made me far less sure about TY contradicting the hunt. I still have some reservations; it still seems to me somewhat safer not to include it. But since I'm ambivalent and the two of you are clearly for the hunt, we might as well adopt it.

I see your point now. But throughout all of the stories that Findegil posted before regarding the evolution of the story of the Ruin of Doriath while it is true that it evolved greatly in time, there is no explicit mention that the Hunt was ever abandoned.
The way that I see it is that if we can use the hunt and that it might help us make the transition towards having the opportunity to having Thingol killed by the dwarves then we should do it.

The treacherous Elves, though, I'm still rather inclined to drop.

I have always been in favor of dismissing the elves and we all 3 are in agremeent in that one.

From The War of the Jewels: Of Maeglin

This text then becomes altogether illegible. At the mention of 'the last Ford over Gelion' he added a note that the name Sarn Athrad of this ford must be changed to Harathrad 'South Ford', 'in contrast to the much used northern ford where the river was not yet very swift or deep, nearly due east of Eöl's house (72 miles distant)'; and against Harathrad here he wrote Athrad Daer ('the Great Ford').
On another page the following names are proposed as replacements for Sarn Athrad: 'Athrad i-Nogoth [> Negyth] or Athrad Dhaer, "Ford of the Dwarves" or "Great Ford"'.

I think that you are right about this one.

Do we know for certain that the Firebeards were the Dwarves of Nogrod and the Broadbeams those of Belegost? As I recall, the way things are phrased in HoMe XII leaves open the possibility that it was the other way around: Firebeards = Belegost and Broadbeams = Nogrod.

Yes, as I have read it now it is ambiguous as to which is which so I think that I would rather say dwarves of Nogrod.

Having looked at Of Maeglin, I noticed another name that needs to be changed:

RD-38
Gelion to Duin Dhaer.

On line M at the foot of the map are these pencilled notes (again with the number 71, see p. 187, §30); 'These river-names need revision to etymologizable words. Celon should go. Gelion should be Duin Dhaer.' On these changes see pp. 336-7 and note 10.

Lamp of Faëry to Silmaril (jewel of Fëanor) per Bolt II.

What I meant by this is that the name Faëry no longer applies in the later works of JRRT and since the Lamp of Faëry implies that it is the Silmaril, I thought to use the name Silmaril instead.

I wonder, do we have any other major point of conflict with the storyline?