Death and the Afterlife - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lord of Angmar · 08-30-2003, 10:29 AM

Death is one of the strangest entities in the works of JRR Tolkien, and death in Middle Earth is a multi-tiered and very strange notion.

The Elves are Immortal, and when their bodies are slain their spirits go to Mandos, and they linger forever in the Undying Lands. In that sense, they can never truly be dead.

The fate of Men is unknown. Although they go to Mandos, it is unknown whither they go after that and if their minds and spirits 'cease to be.' Whereas the spirit of the Elves always lives on, carnate or otherwise, Men may well be subject to true death, in which they no longer think or feel.

Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman and the Undead Ringwraiths are a very interesting example of Tolkien's ideas of death. Morgoth, after being defeated, is thrown into the Void, and for some unknown reason the Valar do not decide to 'kill' him or end his 'life.' Instead, it is prophecied that he will be 'killed' in the Final Battle, though it is unknown whither he will go after he is considered dead. Will his spirit and malice live on in form unrecognizable? Will his mind, his heart and his dark thoughts cease to exist in any sense? Sauron is rather the same. After the War of the Ring, did he pass on to the Void, or was he actually 'dead', in the sense that his spirit could never feel or think again and he could never be heard from again in any recognizable form? Do all of them go to some unknown purgatory after their 'deaths', in the Halls of Iluvatar, after which they follow the fates of their respective kindreds? These are a few strange questions that Tolkien never knotted up.

Another example is the Oath of Feanor which called the "everlasting darkness" upon any of the sons who failed to attain and keep the Silmarils. I assume that this darkness they speak of is the Void. Does this mean their spirits will never fully die out?

These are just a few questions that are entirely debatable (although never conclusively so). Sorry for the rather unorganized (and unproofread) post, I am rather in a hurry.

Cheers!
-Angmar

08-30-2003, 10:29 AM	#1
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	Death and the Afterlife Death is one of the strangest entities in the works of JRR Tolkien, and death in Middle Earth is a multi-tiered and very strange notion. The Elves are Immortal, and when their bodies are slain their spirits go to Mandos, and they linger forever in the Undying Lands. In that sense, they can never truly be dead. The fate of Men is unknown. Although they go to Mandos, it is unknown whither they go after that and if their minds and spirits 'cease to be.' Whereas the spirit of the Elves always lives on, carnate or otherwise, Men may well be subject to true death, in which they no longer think or feel. Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman and the Undead Ringwraiths are a very interesting example of Tolkien's ideas of death. Morgoth, after being defeated, is thrown into the Void, and for some unknown reason the Valar do not decide to 'kill' him or end his 'life.' Instead, it is prophecied that he will be 'killed' in the Final Battle, though it is unknown whither he will go after he is considered dead. Will his spirit and malice live on in form unrecognizable? Will his mind, his heart and his dark thoughts cease to exist in any sense? Sauron is rather the same. After the War of the Ring, did he pass on to the Void, or was he actually 'dead', in the sense that his spirit could never feel or think again and he could never be heard from again in any recognizable form? Do all of them go to some unknown purgatory after their 'deaths', in the Halls of Iluvatar, after which they follow the fates of their respective kindreds? These are a few strange questions that Tolkien never knotted up. Another example is the Oath of Feanor which called the "everlasting darkness" upon any of the sons who failed to attain and keep the Silmarils. I assume that this darkness they speak of is the Void. Does this mean their spirits will never fully die out? These are just a few questions that are entirely debatable (although never conclusively so). Sorry for the rather unorganized (and unproofread) post, I am rather in a hurry. Cheers! -Angmar __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.