Were the Istari Unable or Unwilling... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mithadan*** · 10-25-2006, 07:16 AM

Great post, Sardy!

Tolkien's views on this issue may have been a bit fluid over the years. From LoTR we can see that the Maiar present in Middle Earth (that we know about), Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron and presumably Radagast were all susceptible to being slain, indicating that they may have been stuck with their bodies. The Silmarillion, however, talks about the Valar and Maiar being "clothed" in forms of their choice which they apparently could change or discard at will. It is mantioned that Yavanna took an Ent-like or tree form at times. Further confusing the issue is Radagast who is described as a master of shapes and hues, implying that in Middle earth he could still change his form. Both the Silmarillion and, I believe LoTR suggest that Morgoth and Sauron were able to change forms until their powers diminished after which they were locked in. So which is it?

Tolkien, in one of his letters, which I will dig out if I have time (it was the subject of a debate years ago here), states that the Istari were required to take the form of old Men. The letter implies that they were not merely clothed but became as Men, unable to discard their forms. The purpose was to limit their powers and make them weaker so they would not meet Sauron's force with force directly. But again, what of Radagast? Could he change form? He was a master of "shapes and hues".

10-25-2006, 07:16 AM	#3
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,393	Great post, Sardy! Tolkien's views on this issue may have been a bit fluid over the years. From LoTR we can see that the Maiar present in Middle Earth (that we know about), Gandalf, Saruman, Sauron and presumably Radagast were all susceptible to being slain, indicating that they may have been stuck with their bodies. The Silmarillion, however, talks about the Valar and Maiar being "clothed" in forms of their choice which they apparently could change or discard at will. It is mantioned that Yavanna took an Ent-like or tree form at times. Further confusing the issue is Radagast who is described as a master of shapes and hues, implying that in Middle earth he could still change his form. Both the Silmarillion and, I believe LoTR suggest that Morgoth and Sauron were able to change forms until their powers diminished after which they were locked in. So which is it? Tolkien, in one of his letters, which I will dig out if I have time (it was the subject of a debate years ago here), states that the Istari were required to take the form of old Men. The letter implies that they were not merely clothed but became as Men, unable to discard their forms. The purpose was to limit their powers and make them weaker so they would not meet Sauron's force with force directly. But again, what of Radagast? Could he change form? He was a master of "shapes and hues". __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.