Fourth, Fifth, Sixth (and Seventh?) Ages

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Arvegil145

Well...if 1.XIII (1) is the latest text of the bunch, and if that text has the Awakening of the Quendi in VY 850 - then, given the fact that Men awoke after the Elves, the Awakening of Men has to happen after VY 850 in that conception, doesn't it?

I do see your point. All indications are that Tolkien was thinking of the Quendi awakening ca. 13,000 years before the death of the Trees, even if that specific source doesn't confirm the latter date. So Men would need to wake somewhere between VY 850 and 866. 1.VI.A has the Quendi wake in VY 1000, the Finding in 1090, and Men wake in 1100, which is before Melkor is defeated. In 1.XIII.1, the Quendi wake in VY 850 and are found in 865; applying the same ratio means Men would wake about 2/3 of the way through VY 866. 1.XIII.3 has the Great Debate about a VY before the war with Melkor, meaning late VY 866 is a plausible awakening date for Men - just enough time for Melkor to find them and set his plans in motion before he's taken.

End result: Men awaken ca. 10,000 years before the Trees are killed.

But, I'm not going to change the table, because that's a fairly long string of logic. The table records Tolkien's thoughts (or potential thoughts, in the Astronomy version) at various times; it doesn't attempt to make a "final timeline".

That comes next.

hS