the Darkening of Valinor: texts and discussion

[Saulotus]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 432</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: email

Yes; Encycopedia of Arda is quite comprehensive.

If you have any other concerns please address me PRIVATELY on them.

</p>

[lindil]

up

as per maedhros' request.

I am not sure hw much revised text there is.

It maybe in the private forum.

It should all be here or in the private forum.

Your default setting may only be to see the last years posts [as mine was].

that should reveal the old DOV in the private form as well.

I have to run or I would do it now.

L

[Maédhros]

Lindil, I have made sure as you said to see if my thread view option was shown set to see all the threads, yet I have look both in the public and private forum and have not yet found it. Sorry to bother you but do you think that you could point it out to me. I may have seen it, but I can't recognize it.

[gandalf85]

These comments are based on the latest version of the text I received from Findegil. A few general notes pertaining to the whole text:

1) There is an instance where the term "the Powers" is used. Are we using "Powers" interchangeably with "Valar"? I personally think we should use "Valar" consistently but I could probably be convinced otherwise.

2) Are we using the spelling "Maedros" and not "Maedhros"?

Now more specific comments:

1) I don't think the four paragraphs which start "Now came the {Teleri}[Vanyar] led by the white-robed people ..." up to "Only the Teleri beyond the mountains still sang upon the shores of the Sea; for they reeked little of seasons or times, and gave no thought to the cares of the King of Arda, or to the shadow that had fallen upon Valinor; for it had not touched them, as yet." flows very well. It first says that the Vanyar and Noldor come, then later it says that on the third day the Vanyar and Noldor come. I think it flows better if we follow the basic chronology: The Vanyar and Noldor come and are greeted by Varda. They have feasts and songs. On the third day the Elves go to Taniquetil and Manwe teaches them of the Music. On the last day the Valar come to Tuna. Here is my proposed revision:

Now came the {Teleri}[Vanyar] led by the white-robed people of DoV-DV-04 {the Inwir}[Ingwë], and the throbbing of their congregated harps beat the air most sweetly; and after them went the {Noldoli}[Noldor] DoV-DV-05 mingling once more with their own dear folk by Manwë's clemency, that his festival might be duly kept, but the music that their viols and instruments awoke was now more sweetly sad than ever before.{ And last came the people of the shores, and their piping blent with voices brought the sense of tides and murmurous waves and the wailing cry of the coast-loving birds thus inland deep upon the plain.}
Then was all that host marshalled before the gate of {Valmar}[Valimar], and at the word and sign from {Inwe}[Ingwë] as one voice they burst in unison into the Song of Light. This had DoV-DV-06 {Lirillo}[Salmar] written and taught them, and it told of the longing of the Elves for light, of their dread journey through the dark world led by the desire of the Two Trees, and sang of their utmost joy beholding the faces of the {Gods}[Valar] and their renewed desire once more to enter {Valmar}[Valimar] and tread the Valar's blessed courts. Then did the gates of {Valmar}[Valimar] open and {Nornore}[Eönwë] bid them enter, and all that bright company passed through.
There Varda met them, standing amid the companies of the DoV-DV-07 {Manir and the Suruli}[Maiar], and all the {Gods}[Valar] made them welcome, and feasts there were in all the great halls thereafter.
§58b DoV-DV-10 {There}{[On the third day there] came the Vanyar, and there came the Noldor of Túna, and the Maiar were gathered together, and}.
Now their custom was on the third day to robe themselves all in white and blue and ascend to the heights of Taniquetil, <and> the Valar were arrayed in their beauty and majesty; and they sang before Manwë and Varda in the halls of Taniquetil, or played and danced upon the green slopes of the Mountain that looked west to the Trees. {and} {In that day the streets of {Valmar}[Valimar] were empty, } <And> there would Manwë speak to them as he thought fit of the Music of the Ainur and the glory of Ilúvatar, and of things to be and that had been.> DoV-DV-08 <BoLT 1;VI And on that day would {Kor}[Tirion] and {Valmar}[Valimar] be silent and still, <and the stairs of Túna were silent, and all the land lay sleeping in peace. Only the Teleri beyond the mountains still sang upon the shores of the Sea; for they reeked little of seasons or times, and gave no thought to the cares of the King of Arda, or to the shadow that had fallen upon Valinor; for it had not touched them, as yet.>
{but} But the roof of the world and the slope of Taniquetil shine with the gleaming raiment of the {Gods}[Valar] and Elves, and all the mountains echo with their speech - but afterward on the last day of merriment the {Gods}[Valar] would come to {Kor}[Tirion] and sit upon the slopes of its bright hill, gazing in love upon that slender town, and thereafter blessing it in the name of Ilúvatar would depart ere Silpion came to bloom; and so would end the days of DoV-DV-09 {Double Mirth}[mirth].

2) I think the section on Galadriel starting "DoV-UN-00.2 <UT Galadriel and her brother Finrod were the children of..." feels out of place. The previous section ends with Melkor spreading lies, then there's a long digression on Galadriel, then the next section starts "It is told also that when Melkor saw that these lies were smouldering he began to speak...". "These lies" sounds awkward after the section on Galadriel. Since Galadriel's section discusses the Exile and ends with her settling in Alqualonde, it might work better if we move it to after Feanor's rebellion and decision to sail east but before the kinslatying.

[Findegil]

1) the Powers: I think ‘the Powers’ is still a valid equivalent to ‘the Valar’. I am not in favour of eliminating all such synonyms.

2) Maedros: Yes that is the name we decided to use, because it was the last Version Tolkien used.

About the more specific points:
1) I don’t agree to this. The flow of your editing is nice, put what you left out is the information what was the custom at the last day of the festival. It is only the planes that are talked about in the paragraph beginning with “Now their custom was …”. And §58b is then the real happening.

2) DoV-UN-00.2: The placement of that part and if we take it fully or shorten it is still open for discussion. I thin I added that part long after the discussion of this part of the chapter. When I find the time I will go through this again and post a list of changes I made and the reason for them.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Elvellon]

I think there is a bit of Shibboleth that belongs in here, which I'm going to call DoV-UN-00.8:

§53d Then Fingolfin rose and said: ‘I will release my brother.’ But Fëanor spoke no word in answer; and when he had stood silent before the Valar for a while, he turned and left the council and departed from {Valmar}[Valimar]. At once he returned to Túna, and before the term of seven days that was set, he gathered his goods and his treasures and left the city and went far away. With him went his sons, and Finwë his father, who would not be parted from him, in fault or guiltless, and some others also of the Noldor. But Nerdanel would not go with him, DoV-UN-00.8 <Shibboleth [for] after long endeavouring to change his mood, [she] became estranged>, and she asked leave to {abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed}<Shibboleth retire{d} to her father's house>, though this {had been}[was] little to the liking of Fëanor.

[Findegil]

This is a good find!

I would like to take up even a bit more and not lose the connection with Indis:

... At once he returned to Túna, and before the term of seven days that was set, he gathered his goods and his treasures and left the city and went far away. With him went his sons, and Finwë his father, who would not be parted from him, in fault or guiltless, and some others also of the Noldor. But Nerdanel would not go with him, DoV-UN-00.8b <Shibboleth for after long endeavouring to change his mood, she became estranged. (Her kin were devoted to Aule, who counselled her father to take no part in the rebellion. 'It will in the end only lead Fëanor and all your children to death.')>{, and she}She asked leave to <Shibboleth {retired}retire to her father's house>; thus she abide with Indis, whom she had ever esteemed, though this had been little to the liking of Fëanor. ...

Respectfully
Findegil