The seven thains of Morgoth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

obloquy · 01-16-2002, 06:23 PM

You're right, Aiwendil. Which is why I think there is the note giving both 3 and 7 as plausible numbers. Thousands of such beings as Durin's Bane would have been wholly too much for any army to deal with.

Although the number three seems much too radically reduced, its mere being demands that we consider its implications. To me it is obvious that Tolkien was imagining a drastic change -- only in its primary stages of conception, mind you, so perhaps not solid enough for us to implement into the new Silmarillion project.

I think Tolkien began to envision Balrogs so powerful that any more than seven at the Fall of Gondolin, and any wars before, would have been implausible. Obviously, though, there can be no less than three. I personally believe (and I believe that I am agreeing with Tolkien's latest ideas) that the two numbers he gave (3 and 7) were the only quantities possible. More than about seven of the Durin's Bane breed would have thrown things too off balance, and less than three was impossible because of published material.

As for how the three named Balrogs reappeared later, I have theorized that the Battle of the Powers Balrogs were not yet (fully?) incarnate.

[ June 07, 2003: Message edited by: obloquy ]

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01-16-2002, 06:23 PM	#25
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	You're right, Aiwendil. Which is why I think there is the note giving both 3 and 7 as plausible numbers. Thousands of such beings as Durin's Bane would have been wholly too much for any army to deal with. Although the number three seems much too radically reduced, its mere being demands that we consider its implications. To me it is obvious that Tolkien was imagining a drastic change -- only in its primary stages of conception, mind you, so perhaps not solid enough for us to implement into the new Silmarillion project. I think Tolkien began to envision Balrogs so powerful that any more than seven at the Fall of Gondolin, and any wars before, would have been implausible. Obviously, though, there can be no less than three. I personally believe (and I believe that I am agreeing with Tolkien's latest ideas) that the two numbers he gave (3 and 7) were the only quantities possible. More than about seven of the Durin's Bane breed would have thrown things too off balance, and less than three was impossible because of published material. As for how the three named Balrogs reappeared later, I have theorized that the Battle of the Powers Balrogs were not yet (fully?) incarnate. [ June 07, 2003: Message edited by: obloquy ]