The wrong kind of details: the components of wonder (aka lmp's rant)

[Naaramare]

An interesting thread, lmp. ^^ I also find McKiernan lacking in his Mithgar (or whatever) books, but that's less for details and more that he apes, but does not internalize, the lingual style, and it drives me bonkers.

I disagree with the statement that Aragorn would not be able to tell a lie. Deception is lying; he spent a good deal of time under other names in various cities, pretending to be someone he wasn't--to whit, lying.

Noble Elves should call me higher. They should be better than me. They should whisper to me of What Can Be if real holiness pervades my life.

I HATE Noble Elves.

I also don't think that a character has to be a shining glowing example of holiness to inspire/uplift me. In fact, I hate those kinds of people. I want to smack them. It's my major problem with the endings of Elizabeth Moon's Deed of Paksennarion; by the end of the book, I cannot identify with Paks. In the same vein, Elrond's nobility often makes my teeth ache.

Sam, on the other hand, who is often bigoted, stupid, frustratingly and detrimentally stubborn and has other flaws--REAL FAULTS, not pretend-faults like a "quick temper"--I can relate to. Gimli, with pride that is a REAL FLAW, I can relate to. And thus, when something happens to them that shows an uplifting, I share the sense of it.

I dislike that kind of oversimplification because I can't relate to it. Most of the elves in LotR are nothing more than vague shadows for me, devoid of personality, becase they are too perfect. It's the flawed ones that draw me and interest me--the actually flawed ones.

The most recent book that did this for me was Terry Prachett's "Guards, Guards!" One reaches the end of the books [SPOILER ALERT], and Captain Vimes has a short conversation with Lord Vetinari about the utter unsalvageable selfish evil of Mankind. There are no good people and bad people, Vetinari says, only bad people on opposite sides.

Then Vimes and his men, who are technically owed the entirety of the city for saving it from a dragon, when asked by Vetinari what they want in return . . .ask for a new kettle and a dartboard for the Guardhouse. Oh yes, and a five dollar pay raise.

THAT moment made me want to cry for its uplift. And Vimes and all his men are very humanly flawed.

Another good one is Diarmuid from the Fionavar Tapestry (a book that also does well at handling sex in a high fantasy manner . . .). Diarmuid is a Very Bad Example for Young Children. Diarmuid wenches, drinks, kills, hunts, plays idiotic tricks that endanger and take others lives.

Yet he is one of the most uplifting characters in it, at the end.

Flawless people don't inspire me, they irritate me and even discourage me, because as I see nothing of myself in them, I know I cannot be them. So I disagree with that. ^^