Aredhel the bad girl?

[Finwe]

I don't think Grima Wormtongue is an idiot, he's just a severely misunderstood person. I think that is what led to his eventual corruption by Saruman. No one liked him at all.

[Aredhel The White]

Greetings All...
I know this is an old toppic and another Aredhel in the forrest, but I feel I could write few lines about it She became my the most favourite character long time ago, I study her a lot because I am interrested in mytology globally. I made my account for this so it is my first review and I am not native english speaker, so, pleas, exuse mistakes. It was also hard for me to read all the text here but I think I have main lines... You described many ideas I have about it. Lush, thank you, you protected the fortress very well in 2002 ;o) Maybe it is understanding between all white ladies

For me she was the self-seeker. She didn't want the power (she was highking's sister and very noble but she preffered wandering), was extravagant (wears only white and silver) and not afraid of impediments in her way to herselve (Helcaraxe, leaving of Gondolin, Ereth Gorgoroth, leaving Elmoth ;o) ).
She didn't want happines forever but true relationship, even complicated, with those she loved. So she still saw Feanorians through they were cursed.
Oh yes and I believe they were in love with Eöl. Elves could leave their bodie very easily if they realy didn't like things which happend to it (fea and hroa conception, somewhere in earlier texts, not sure where). Eol had temper very similar to Feanorians, actually. He could be very exotic for her. He was Black, she was White. He was Moredhel she was Aredhel. Eöl's strange courting could overdone her cold and distance (she was very tired when she came to his house) and hesistancy. One of his characteristics was "huggermugger" - I see him almoust like "bowler" shy about his feelings, aim in action instead of words ;o) Their love may be strange, complicated, hidden in tweilight. Kind of forbidden relationship which may grew when two are alone but died in confrontation with reality. Well, there could be something unhealthy about it. That is why I meet gothic, vampire Aredhels usually ;o)

She was not perfect. And that is the most interresting about her. I agree her proclamations to Turgon about escape and her escape from Elmoth were temerite, almoust like adolescent behaviour. Aredhel was lady full of contrast - she was restless and not sure what she wants, but when she found it she gave all into it. She wanted to be free and to be herselve. She was noble, pride a little bit, from her soul... Flaming soul close to Feanor's kind. Trying hard to describe herselve. Pride is not so unusual in elven kind and very typical for Noldor ;o)But temper and flame was inborn, so from Eru Iluvatar and so it had it's place in music of Arda ;o)

[Aredhel The White]

I recogniced I wrote nothing about Fall of Gondolin

Well then...
- It was said Gondolin will fail even before it was build
- Tuor came to Gondolin as Ulmo's messenger, saying "Hey, guys, the time came, we have to leave the city" ;o) But Turgon temporized.
- Fate reason of Gondolin was keep a safe place where "Hope" may be born (Earendil). Even Maeglin believed in it (well... he believed that HE is the hope ;o) ). No Fall of Gondolin -> No escape of Idril, Tuor and Earendil -> No Vingilótë -> No sail to Valinor -> No final destruction of Morgoth

- Aredhel was quite guarded in her speech about Gondolin for a long time (and even her son with special mind-reading skill didn't elicite a lot ;o) )
- Relationship between Maeglin and Eöl may be much worse than between Eöl and Aredhel. I see some Freudian topic here ;--) She was allowed to stay in Gondolin but he was not (in Eöl's eyes). She was free in her travels, except visit her cousins, even she could leave Elmoth, if under moon. If the son only figured out he want visit the Noldor, Eöl was angry and very cruel to him. Eöl was not a good father and if Maeglin was ever trapped, then between his two parents.
- Aredhel planted the seed of desire. She created secret fairytale for his son, something that musn't be said, something hidden, something to feel guilty for. Strories about forbidden lands.
- Eöl was jealous and pride in Gondolin. He was enchanted by beauty of the land as well, but it made things even worse. And he tryed to kill his own son.
- Aredhel was trying save the situation when Eöl came to Gondolin. Her son and then her husband.
- Maeglin had problem of Orestes. His father killed his mother and when trying to kill HIM. He was still quite young, maybe adolescent, who hate his father anyway... so he said nothing against. So he lost both his parents in the same day...
- Eöl cursed his son. This is not good. Fate proclamations have BIG power in Arda...
- Idril estranged absolutelly and it made it worse. She saw Maeglin was visiting border as well because she knew him the best, but she made only a tunel, she didn't try keep him in the city.
- But it was decision of Maeglin betray the Gondolin. Aredhel never wanted it. If she alive she would do everything against. And Eöl wanted only go back to his small forrest (and destroy Noldor eventually ;o) but not today) .

The special question are Eöl's weapons. In early work there is passage Eöl may be ensnared by Morgoth. Trapped for a while. Then it is said he was Dark elf (Moredhel) and he made two strange swords ;o) Those swords were affected by his mentality, almoust cursed. One of them became to Turin - the one he killed Beleg with, then Glaurung and then himselve. The second was stolen by Maeglin and perhaps became to scene where he was trying to kill Tuor.
Eöl worn poisoned javelin also. He killed Aredhel with it. This is unusual - only cause with poisoned weapon in demesne of elf i know.
If he was trapped by Morgoth (maybe he didn't remember), is it possible to behave betrayter of Goldolin even earlier he is born and via two swords from unknown material (who knows where the meteorit came from, hmmm?) keep two the biggest victories of Enemy in Firts age? (Fall of Gondolin, Children of Hurin)

In early work Meglin with Eöl and Aredhel with Idril are often only one figure. This is also very interresting. It connected it with Eowyn and Gríma Wormtongue and Witchking.

Poisoned, cursed moments near him. Unnatural relationships near Aredhel.

[Pitchwife]

Hi Aredhel, and welcome to the Downs! I'm not a native English speaker either, but I think I understood most of what you were saying. Nice analysis of the Aredhel-Eöl-Maeglin triangle, and some psychologic insights concerning your namesake that are worth thinking about.
And if you're going to post here more often, you'll find the practice will do marvels for your English!

[Aredhel The White]

Thank you, Pitchwife, for your very kind welcoming words I am sure this forum will be marvelous for my English as same as for my Tolkienistic soul! :O)

[Faramir Jones]

Dear Aredhel, welcome to the Downs! I was very interested in your analysis of your elvish namesake; and my contribution to this debate is that no, I think Aredhel was 'unwise' rather than 'bad'. Her behaviour, both in terms of wanting to go where she wanted and marrying Eöl, was certainly unwise; but that lack of wisdom ran in the family, in particular in her Uncle Fëanor, who directly caused the deaths of so many fellow Elves.

One of the few Elves of that generation who seemed to gain wisdom over the years was Aredhel's cousin Galadriel, who renounced her chance of taking the One Ring, and who was accepted back into Valinor as a result.

Lindolirian, I don't think Wormtongue was an idiot. Saruman would not have chosen such a person to carry out his delicate plans to undermine Rohan. His plan was to undermine the kingdom by undermining Theoden, but to do so in a delicate manner. The way to do this, both by words and by mild poisons, was to ensure that Theoden would give orders that reduced Rohan's ability to defend itself; but he would not give orders that were either mad, or illegal or unconstitutional; so there would be no case to either set up a regency or dethrone him.

[Morwen]

For me, Aredhel's mistake with respect to Gondolin begins with her decision to go with her brother when he reveals to her that he has plans to build a secret kingdom in a hidden valley and never intends to leave. Given that wandering far and wide is something that she loved since Valinor, it didn't require elven foresight to see that a cloistered existence was not the best thing for her.
I think that her decision, well demand really, to leave is undeniably selfish (she is putting her needs above the safety and security of an entire kingdom). But I do sympathise with her a bit at this point. The need to wander is a longstanding trait for her. It is not something that suddenly manifests itself as a result of being in Gondolin.Having made what is for her a bad decision, she is stuck with either living it (which given elven lifespans would be a daunting prospect) or selfishly demanding an out.
Having opted to leave Gondolin I do think that she ought to have stayed gone. I've a hard time sympathising with her here. She perhaps (mistakenly) thought that she could be happy in Gondolin the first time. Did she think the second time round would be the charm? Even if Eol had not followed her to Gondolin, would she have been happy there indefinitely (or at least until her evil seed child betrayed the kingdom)?
Ultimately I don't think she is to blame for the fall of Gondolin. I think more direct blame can be laid at the feet of Maeglin for his actions and also Turgon for his inaction. I do agree though that Aredhel is an interesting character.