Doomed from the begining... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mithadan*** · 08-10-2000, 07:59 PM

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Doomed from the begining...

Nice post Westward Road! The idea that Melkor thrice attempted to dominate the Theme is related to Melkor twice and Sauron later attempting to seize control of middle earth is one I haven't heard before. But didn't Sauron try twice himself?

The theory about ainur who were swayed by Melkor's music being fated to follow him is interesting also. Maybe the right word isn't "fated" but rather dominated or corrupted. Remember that Osse was initially a supporter of Melkor but changed sides. Also, Tolkien in a number of letters emphasized his belief that no corruption is "unredeemable".

The fate issue, and the qoute about only man having totally free will, is one I've debated on other boards. My personal view is that whatever was directly addressed in the Music is more strictly governed by fate. But the Music was broad-brush strokes, not a detailed history, giving all races room for some free will. Perhaps men are more free because the Music ended before they arose in the Third Theme. However, it appears that the more closely they deal with elves and the Valar, the more they get bound up in fated or dommed events. Others disagree and argue that there is no predetermination in Tolkien's works. I think this view ignores the obvious implications of the Sil.

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08-10-2000, 07:59 PM	#1
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,393	<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton Posts: 0</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE> <img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Doomed from the begining... Nice post Westward Road! The idea that Melkor thrice attempted to dominate the Theme is related to Melkor twice and Sauron later attempting to seize control of middle earth is one I haven't heard before. But didn't Sauron try twice himself? The theory about ainur who were swayed by Melkor's music being fated to follow him is interesting also. Maybe the right word isn't "fated" but rather dominated or corrupted. Remember that Osse was initially a supporter of Melkor but changed sides. Also, Tolkien in a number of letters emphasized his belief that no corruption is "unredeemable". The fate issue, and the qoute about only man having totally free will, is one I've debated on other boards. My personal view is that whatever was directly addressed in the Music is more strictly governed by fate. But the Music was broad-brush strokes, not a detailed history, giving all races room for some free will. Perhaps men are more free because the Music ended before they arose in the Third Theme. However, it appears that the more closely they deal with elves and the Valar, the more they get bound up in fated or dommed events. Others disagree and argue that there is no predetermination in Tolkien's works. I think this view ignores the obvious implications of the Sil. </p> __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

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