Giving Strength - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

symestreem · 05-10-2004, 05:05 PM

Hmm... now we have to get into the discussion of whether archaic forms of a name are applicable. Not another canon argument!

Seriously though, I guess the real question is whether the name evolved from 'Aegthelion' to 'Ecthelion' in Middle-earth, or in Tolkien's writing. What did Tolkien intend for the name to be? And should we apply the evolution of a name outside Middle-earth to its evolution inside it?

Aiwendil · 05-10-2004, 05:13 PM

Sorry I didn't make it clear - "Aegthelion" is the archaic form intra-Legendarium. The whole etymology I just summarized comes from "Of Maeglin" which is c. 1970.

Elianna · 05-10-2004, 06:39 PM

In HoME V, in the Etymologies, it gives certain referance to Ecthelion: under the roots for spear and point. It seems, then, to mean "point (of spear)". Beyond that, you could take the '-ion' to be simply a male name suffix, or to mean 'son of'.

symestreem · 05-11-2004, 04:50 AM

If 'Aegthelion' is the archaic form, then is 'fell strength' is another possible translation?

Voralphion · 05-11-2004, 07:12 PM

I don't think Ecthelion's name would be Sindarin. Since he was an elf of Gondolin, his name was probably Noldorin.
Earendil's name was said to be of a speech unique to the Gondolhrim, (I think it is mentioned in the fall of Gondolin), perhaps the name Ecthelion was also of that language.

05-10-2004, 06:39 PM	#3
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	In HoME V, in the Etymologies, it gives certain referance to Ecthelion: under the roots for spear and point. It seems, then, to mean "point (of spear)". Beyond that, you could take the '-ion' to be simply a male name suffix, or to mean 'son of'. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

05-11-2004, 07:12 PM	#5
Voralphion Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sharkey's End Posts: 267	I don't think Ecthelion's name would be Sindarin. Since he was an elf of Gondolin, his name was probably Noldorin. Earendil's name was said to be of a speech unique to the Gondolhrim, (I think it is mentioned in the fall of Gondolin), perhaps the name Ecthelion was also of that language. __________________ His sword was long his lance was keen His shining helm afar was seen The countless stars of heavens field Were mirrored in his silver shield

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05-10-2004, 05:05 PM	#1
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	Hmm... now we have to get into the discussion of whether archaic forms of a name are applicable. Not another canon argument! Seriously though, I guess the real question is whether the name evolved from 'Aegthelion' to 'Ecthelion' in Middle-earth, or in Tolkien's writing. What did Tolkien intend for the name to be? And should we apply the evolution of a name outside Middle-earth to its evolution inside it?

05-10-2004, 05:13 PM	#2
Aiwendil Late Istar Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 2,224	Sorry I didn't make it clear - "Aegthelion" is the archaic form intra-Legendarium. The whole etymology I just summarized comes from "Of Maeglin" which is c. 1970.

05-11-2004, 04:50 AM	#4
symestreem Face in the Water Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 728	If 'Aegthelion' is the archaic form, then is 'fell strength' is another possible translation?