Green as a representation of evil

[Imladris]

You know, I never really realized that before, especially since green is the colour that makes us feel relaxed and comfortable.

On the subject of mold: mold itself isn't inherently bad. Basically, it's like the process which mark12_30 has pointed out about the grass.

Bilbo's door is green, and he was a good guy. Of course, you could also refute that point by saying that Bilbo was the Ringbearer of Sauron's Ring, which had an effect on him, making him feel like butter being stretched over to much bread, etc...

So maybe green is an ambigous colour, used by both bad guys and good guys. The Rohirrim, also, had green banners.

Half formed thoughts here...like mark12_30 said, more later.

[HerenIstarion]

Bibo's door was painted green before he became the ring-bearer

On the other hand, it was painted green just before he went away on a journey which, eventually, led to his becoming the ring-bearer. Sinister, that...

Definitely aftermath of reading Dan Brown (not that I agree with his conclusions, but still) recently in my case - seeking hidden symbolism in quite innocent things

[The Saucepan Man]

According to studies that I have seen, we are conditioned to react with disgust against certain colours that occur in nature (such as green and yellow) in certain circumstances (particularly, as mark 12_30 says, when they are slimy or sticky green), because they are associated with disease. For example, we are less likely to want to touch a bowl of sticky green liquid than a bowl of sticky blue liquid. Blue, since it occurs rarely in nature, does not evoke such a strong reaction. Here is a fun test which makes the point.

Of course, green also represents vitality, again because it is a natural colour. So, we are told to “eat our greens” because they are good for us. And I am sure that I am not alone in deriving great pleasure from the image of sunlight on leafy trees. Also, in international signage, green represents "go" or safety, whereas red represents "stop" or danger.

So it is ambivalent, but it’s more likely to provoke a bad reaction in situations where we don’t expect it. Also, the shade will make a difference, so the pale dull green of Minas Morgul (as captured well, I think in the RotK film) will seem threatening. But I imagine the green of Rohan’s banners and Bilbo’s door as a pleasant, vibrant green.

Green can also represent danger, in that it is used by some predators (amongst the reptilian and insect worlds) as camouflage. Perhaps Old Man Willow falls into this category.

[symestreem]

Green is found as a representation of good in the colors of the Rohirrim, the Elessar, Bag End as Saucepan mentioned, and various other devices. I think that the ambivalent colors indicate that anything can be used by the enemy.

I think The Saucepan Man hit the point.

...it’s more likely to provoke a bad reaction in situations where we don’t expect it.

Green leaves or green grass are ok, but green fumes are not. And like mark12_30 says, it's the same with any color.

Black clothes are fine, but the all-black darkness of the black riders is something odd and scaring.

And Saruman's white is not a real white any longer. It's made from all colors, and it's some kind of the optical illusion. Very unusual at the Third Age, a long long time ago...

It surely was peculiar to Sir Gawain to meet the Green Knight. But the Red Knight or the Pink Knight would have been the same thing. All the real medieval knights were actually rather gray, I think. The synthetic colors was made up much more later. And before that there was not a way to color brightly.

Sauron, of course, was a master to demonstrate his might by producing the things unnatural.

[Kransha]

Originally Posted by Mablung

I think The Saucepan Man hit the point.
It surely was peculiar to Sir Gawain to meet the Green Knight. But the Red Knight or the Pink Knight would have been the same thing. All the real medieval knights were actually rather gray, I think. The synthetic colors was made up much more later. And before that there was not a way to color brightly.

If you don't mind me singling you out, I'm going to use that statement to make a point. I DO NOT believe it would have been the same thing. The Green Knight and his decapitation challenge was a technical representation of nature's two sides. There is intimidation in the vastness, the hugeness, the looming anarchy of the dark forests, then there is the natural order and peace in nature; the wisdom in the Green Knight's lethal test. In Tolkein, these two things coalesce again. Treebeard and Quickbeam are that calm, strong, wise, and orderly aspect (albeit somewhat forgetful) while the general ominousness of Fangorn, Mirkwood, or Old Man Willow make up for the evil, dark, chaotic greenery.

On the matter of color in general, there is a lot of profound use of color on heraldic devices, which is exhibited in Tolkein as well. White and black and red can be considered evil, but White is probably not, referenced to Gandalf. In fact, the rainbow of the spectrum, one of the most beautiful alignments of color there is, could be designated as evil if we use "Saruman of the Many Colors" as an example. I find that there is some darkness in green, but light green is a color that frequents the Shire and Rohan, along with browns, yellows, blues, and other colors. Maybe green is a representation of "Dead Stuff" if I may put it bluntly. Barrow-Wights (not our esteemed admin, of course), Dead Men of Dunharrow, Dead Marsh ghosts, and the home of the Wraith King, all have that green tint. Maybe the polar opposite of 'happy green' is 'recently deceased green'...which could well be why all the text on these forums is green...or is it? I've been looking so long I hardly even know anymore...Must revamp color-blindness, precious.

There is the different shade aspect. Rohan Green is grassy, Shire Green is vibrant, Morgul Green is lucid and pale, plenty of variations of a single pigment.

[Bombadil]

but colors are also interchangeable in the Star Wars movies.

Such as X-wing fighters, and ships of the good shoot red lasers. While the TIE fighters, and dark ships shoot green, but the color of darkside lightsabers is red, and one of the colors of good lightsabers is green. This is an example of how it can be interchangable.

Ironic it is that with all the evil green about, Sauron seeks to destroy all good and green. I believe it just goes with the connotation behind it.

[Saraphim]

What about the Green Dragon? Best ale from far to wide, I hear.

Seriously, this topic is interesting. Typically, one thinks of dark colors as being "evil", but when I think of poison, the stereotypical image I get is one of a bright green, steaming stew.

And when people are ill to the stomach, they turn a sickly green, don't they. And I can't imagine anything more evil than a stomachache.

What about the Barrow-Downs itself. Being Downs, of course, they are green, but how evil are they, filled with wights and various specters and such.

The color of our font here is green, as are the t-shirts, one of which I own. Now, this is not an evil place, one of the finest places I can think of, on or off the web.

So, green can mean a number of things, as can any other color, I suppose.
Weren't the Stormtroopers in Star Wars dressed all in white?

Green is also my favorite color. That's why I wear my BD shirt so much! And I'm as evil as they come.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Interesting thoughts Joy, and good to see you.

Whoops! I have to admit that green is my favorite color. I'm not quite sure what that says about me.

I have always thought of green as the color that most closely represents "life". I truly don't think of it as the color of death and dying, but associate it with living things: green, leafy trees; lovely flowers with strong green stems; the placid green waters of a lake, etc. I've always thought that was why the Hobbits favored green and yellow clothes: the color of the earth and the color of the sun mixed together. But then, perhaps the social scientists never applied their tests to Hobbits, since they obviously didn't dislike these colors!

Since life has two sides --good and bad, perhaps that duality also applies to the color green as well.

Interesting, Saucepan Man that you would pick out blue as a color that carries naturally "good" connotations. The minute you said "blue", a variety of negative images and words flicked through my mind: "blue" babies, a person turning blue as he gasps for air, and someone with chattering teeth in the dead of winter who is so cold that he looks blue! Perhaps I am unusual in this regard. Then again color associations may be a very personal thing, and no one can predict how someone will react to a particular color. (Quite often, as others have noted, it is the shade of the color that provokes a response, rather than the color itself.)

The thing that's always struck me about Tolkien is that he does not use one color as always good and another as always bad, which we sometimes see in other works and films. This is very true in his usage of black and white, colors that are often represented in a one-sided manner.