LotR Reading Club - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

***Mister Underhill*** · 06-02-2004, 01:52 PM

This actually was attempted in the distant past here on the Downs. I was only able to find three of the five chapters that were posted before the project was abandoned, though there is evidence here that they all existed at one time.

Book I - Chapter 2

Book I - Chapter 4

Book I - Chapter 5

I link these as a curiosity only. I think it would be worth starting over and doing the read-along.

P.S. -- Isn't it interesting how the Downs' own history in many cases now lies in shattered, half-forgotten ruins?

Estelyn Telcontar · 06-02-2004, 02:01 PM

Thanks for those links, Underhill! I was just searching for the "Long-expected party" thread, with no success. Apparently it disappeared into the Void at some time.

I think a chapter-by-chapter discussion is a worthwhile idea and would suggest that a thread be opened here on the Books forum for each chapter. It seems to me that too much structuring would defeat the purpose, and I don't think it's necessary to have a new forum for the discussion. Newcomers could join in later, as is possible on all open threads here.

mark12_30 · 06-02-2004, 02:02 PM

Hoooray! Esty, you da best!!!

**springle ring**

This time through the book I'm going to sing as many of the songs as I possibly can.

**The Saucepan Man** · 06-02-2004, 05:16 PM

What an excellent idea, Fordim. I have been meaning to re-read LotR, having not done so in a while. I was planning on working through the Silm and the Hobbit first, but then again I did read them more recently.

Only problem is I'm not sure if I'll be able to restrict myself to one chapter a week as when I finish a chapter I tend to want to plunge into the next one straight away. Still, I suppose there'll be no problem in doing a bit of reading ahead and, in any event, we'll be spending time posting our thoughts between chapters.

While discussion topics for each chapter are a good idea, I don't think this should be too rigid since people may want to raise other issues, themes, questions etc that occur to them while reading too.

Anyway, count me in.

Kransha · 06-02-2004, 05:38 PM

Yes, to support the idea of our Man de la Saucepan, I believe we (I say, 'we' in hypothetical terms, but assume that it is a 'we' community) should shy away from letting this become starchy, uninteresting. There is yin and there is yang, order and choas. To use the name-changing Fun Forum as an example, we don't want mayhem, but we might want a bit of mirth, or else we'll be faced with very dry discussion.

We shan't keep it too ordered, just ordered enough to serve, so we get past 5 chapters and deeper. I'm eager to see what kind of things will be discussed, in way of theme, metaphor, chapter-relevant language (can't wait for 'Treebeard' in TT for discussion of the nature of literary ents, or Tom Bombadil's ever versed symmetry in FotR), and etcetera. It seems like this could be a very rewarding experience.

Well, to put it simply, bluntly, promptly, curtly, and flummoxedly, I'm in!

Fordim, perhaps thou shouldst a list compile, of members fine and never vile?

Quote:

P.S. -- Isn't it interesting how the Downs' own history in many cases now lies in shattered, half-forgotten ruins?

I believe Percy Bysse Shelley might have something to say on the matter.

***Mister Underhill*** · 06-02-2004, 08:59 PM

Look on my posts ye Mighty, and despair!

....Not.

I think the key to success is the right pacing. Too slow, and people read ahead, soon outpacing the discussion; too fast, and people fall behind and give up. One chapter a week sounds waaaaaay too slow to this Ozymandias. If you could pace it out over about three weeks or a month, I think you'd be in business.

Fordim Hedgethistle · 06-02-2004, 10:18 PM

Wow. . .and again. . .wow -- what a great response. I genuinely thought that this idea would recieve a scoffing! (Can scoffing be used as a noun? Come to think of it, can it be used as a verb in the present imperfect?)

It seems to me that the success of this venture will rely on three things:

1) getting a good group of committed posters to form a 'core' from the beginning (as Kransha has pointed out) -- I would venture that at the moment it would appear as though we have that

2) getting the pacing right (as Mister Underhill astutely points out)

3) making sure that there is some kind of guidance to the thread, but not in terms of dictating subjects for discussion, only to keep the discussion on topic ("write about this blasted chapter, dol gon it!") and to make sure that the posts are more or less substantive (I had a peek at those earlier book club posts provided by MU and it seems to me that too many of them were of the "I like this chapter, especially the bit when. . " variety -- any book club must have room for this, but I think we all would like to see more substantive stuff come along with that. Perhaps not shockingly, there are some very interesting posts by Saucepan Man of the variey I envision, and at least one very nice one by my friend Alak).

In response to point one, I think that we can rely on the core talent of the Downs to keep the thing going, with an eye to making sure that newcomers to the converation are always welcome. To that end, I think Estel's suggestion to have a new thread in the Books forum for each chapter is a good one: much more welcoming and visible for newbies (or oldies who wish to join in media res). I think that if we come up with a standard "greetings this is what we're doing" first post that we use for each thread, that should allow people to orient themselves fairly quickly.

As to point two, I suppose I'd like to hear your suggestions. Mark 12_30 has floated some concrete ideas about timetables, and MU has weighed in with the opinion that a chapter a week is too slow. I myself think that a chapter a week is just right, as it will give everyone a chance to post at least once, and reply to someone else's post at least once. What is the opinion of the Barrow Downs community?

And for point three, I think that the guidance for the threads could easily be provided by that same core of posters who I refer to in point one above. Would we want to have a more 'formal' arrangement whereby there's a person or people whose 'job' it is to oversee the conversations? I don't like this idea much, but I put it out there for comment. I suspect that there will need to be a small group who take it upon themselves to post the new threads each week (or according to whatever schedule we decide upon) and answer the questions of those who wish to join the discussion but maybe aren't sure what's going on.

At any rate, keep the suggestions coming, and get out there to recruit people you think might be interested in this project!

By The Way -- I've always preferred the Victorians to the Romantics: Tennyson, in particular, just wipes me out:

Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down:
It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.

Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in the old days
Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;
One equal-temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Now that's the real thing: words you can eat with a fork.

06-02-2004, 02:01 PM	#2
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	Thanks for those links, Underhill! I was just searching for the "Long-expected party" thread, with no success. Apparently it disappeared into the Void at some time. I think a chapter-by-chapter discussion is a worthwhile idea and would suggest that a thread be opened here on the Books forum for each chapter. It seems to me that too much structuring would defeat the purpose, and I don't think it's necessary to have a new forum for the discussion. Newcomers could join in later, as is possible on all open threads here. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

06-02-2004, 02:02 PM	#3
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Hoooray! Esty, you da best!!! springle ring This time through the book I'm going to sing as many of the songs as I possibly can. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

06-02-2004, 05:16 PM	#4
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	What an excellent idea, Fordim. I have been meaning to re-read LotR, having not done so in a while. I was planning on working through the Silm and the Hobbit first, but then again I did read them more recently. Only problem is I'm not sure if I'll be able to restrict myself to one chapter a week as when I finish a chapter I tend to want to plunge into the next one straight away. Still, I suppose there'll be no problem in doing a bit of reading ahead and, in any event, we'll be spending time posting our thoughts between chapters. While discussion topics for each chapter are a good idea, I don't think this should be too rigid since people may want to raise other issues, themes, questions etc that occur to them while reading too. Anyway, count me in. __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

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06-02-2004, 01:52 PM	#1
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	This actually was attempted in the distant past here on the Downs. I was only able to find three of the five chapters that were posted before the project was abandoned, though there is evidence here that they all existed at one time. Book I - Chapter 2 Book I - Chapter 4 Book I - Chapter 5 I link these as a curiosity only. I think it would be worth starting over and doing the read-along. P.S. -- Isn't it interesting how the Downs' own history in many cases now lies in shattered, half-forgotten ruins?

06-02-2004, 08:59 PM	#6
*Mister Underhill* Dread Horseman Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Behind you! Posts: 2,744	Look on my posts ye Mighty, and despair! ....Not. I think the key to success is the right pacing. Too slow, and people read ahead, soon outpacing the discussion; too fast, and people fall behind and give up. One chapter a week sounds waaaaaay too slow to this Ozymandias. If you could pace it out over about three weeks or a month, I think you'd be in business.

06-02-2004, 10:18 PM	#7
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	Wow. . .and again. . .wow -- what a great response. I genuinely thought that this idea would recieve a scoffing! (Can scoffing be used as a noun? Come to think of it, can it be used as a verb in the present imperfect?) It seems to me that the success of this venture will rely on three things: 1) getting a good group of committed posters to form a 'core' from the beginning (as Kransha has pointed out) -- I would venture that at the moment it would appear as though we have that 2) getting the pacing right (as Mister Underhill astutely points out) 3) making sure that there is some kind of guidance to the thread, but not in terms of dictating subjects for discussion, only to keep the discussion on topic ("write about this blasted chapter, dol gon it!") and to make sure that the posts are more or less substantive (I had a peek at those earlier book club posts provided by MU and it seems to me that too many of them were of the "I like this chapter, especially the bit when. . " variety -- any book club must have room for this, but I think we all would like to see more substantive stuff come along with that. Perhaps not shockingly, there are some very interesting posts by Saucepan Man of the variey I envision, and at least one very nice one by my friend Alak). In response to point one, I think that we can rely on the core talent of the Downs to keep the thing going, with an eye to making sure that newcomers to the converation are always welcome. To that end, I think Estel's suggestion to have a new thread in the Books forum for each chapter is a good one: much more welcoming and visible for newbies (or oldies who wish to join in media res). I think that if we come up with a standard "greetings this is what we're doing" first post that we use for each thread, that should allow people to orient themselves fairly quickly. As to point two, I suppose I'd like to hear your suggestions. Mark 12_30 has floated some concrete ideas about timetables, and MU has weighed in with the opinion that a chapter a week is too slow. I myself think that a chapter a week is just right, as it will give everyone a chance to post at least once, and reply to someone else's post at least once. What is the opinion of the Barrow Downs community? And for point three, I think that the guidance for the threads could easily be provided by that same core of posters who I refer to in point one above. Would we want to have a more 'formal' arrangement whereby there's a person or people whose 'job' it is to oversee the conversations? I don't like this idea much, but I put it out there for comment. I suspect that there will need to be a small group who take it upon themselves to post the new threads each week (or according to whatever schedule we decide upon) and answer the questions of those who wish to join the discussion but maybe aren't sure what's going on. At any rate, keep the suggestions coming, and get out there to recruit people you think might be interested in this project! By The Way -- I've always preferred the Victorians to the Romantics: Tennyson, in particular, just wipes me out: Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world. Push off, and sitting well in order smite The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths Of all the western stars, until I die. It may be that the gulfs will wash us down: It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles, And see the great Achilles, whom we knew. Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho' We are not now that strength which in the old days Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are; One equal-temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield. Now that's the real thing: words you can eat with a fork.