Feedback and Suggestion Box

[the phantom]

I have not read the foreword discussion but I plan on getting into this chapter by chapter thing relatively soon. In the meanwhile, I'm finding this suggestion box thread rather interesting.

I think posts should be more open and accessible to everyone in the Barrow-Downs, not just a few more 'learned' people.

Fingolfin II, could you explain what you mean by 'more open and accessible'?....Or would you prefer not to see outside critics and scholars quoted with their ideas about Tolkien?

I don't know if that's what he meant, but that certainly is an issue. For one thing, I want to hear what you guys think and I want you to hear what I think. Critics and scholars should take a back seat to us and only be quoted if someone thinks that a point the critic/scholar makes is good and can't possibly be put into better words. Also, when some critic or scholar is quoted they are nearly always speaking in "university paper" language, as Squatter so aptly put it. And I'm sure for many Downers, "university paper" posting equals less fun. This, of course, is not always the case, but it can be.

I haven't read the thread in question, but I can certainly recall viewing other threads that contained lengthy, academic posts that seemed to suck the oxygen right out of the room. The posts were full of words but there was very little meaning per word. This is what happens when a poster has a way to express himself that would use about one tenth the space but elects to take the long road.

I don't think anyone who posted wanted to deter others from posting--certainly there is nothing here like the curt, short, sharp style the guys used when I came to BD.

I don't know what to say about that. It was in part the curt, short, sharp style I saw that made me join this forum. That sort of style gets across the same idea in less space and makes me smile at the same time.

For instance, let's say someone starts a new thread and asks "Why did Feanor want to chase Morgoth so bad?" I would prefer to see someone post something like this-

So, did you miss the parts where it said-
1) Feanor loved his dad
2)Morgoth killed his dad
3)Feanor loved his jewels
4)Morgoth stole his jewels

I'd rather see that than some super long post dripping with psychology terms that ends up saying no more than the previous post. The only way I'd want a long post is if it says a lot more. You know, begins to ponder why Feanor felt this way about this, and what he might've been thinking at this time, and what he might've said to so and so at this other time. But all too often it's just smart sounding posts taking up way too much space.

I love the curt, short, sharp style.

But of course this discussion isn't going to mean anything once we get past the foreword because I agree with these posts-

What I hope is that in moving into the actual chapters more people will contribute to discussion.

I think once we hit "fun" chapters, more people will want to throw in their two cents.

I agree that the foreword isn't the most interesting part of the book for a lot of readers. I'm sure that the Prologue and A Long-Expected Party will draw a lot more people into the discussion who are more interested in Hobbits than allegory versus applicability.

I'm sure more people will be posting soon.

[davem]

I can only say that I was slightly disappointed that we started with the Forword, as I knew it could only lead to analysis of Tolkien the man & his motives. I went too far in such analysis, & possibly deterred some others from posting - if so I'm sorry.

I can see valid reasons for sticking to LotR, or at least to LotR, Hobbit - possibly with relevant references to the Sil, leaving aside Letters, Home, UT, Trying as far as possible to approach LotR as if its all we have.

The only danger is the thread decending into 'I think Aragorn is really cool' or I really liked it when the Ringwraiths attacked the Hobbits under Weathertop', etc. As long as it doesn't go that way I think it will be a very interesting experience.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Davem, you said:

The only danger is the thread decending into 'I think Aragorn is really cool' or I really liked it when the Ringwraiths attacked the Hobbits under Weathertop', etc.

I could not agree more that we don't want the thread(s) to be dominated by comments like this, but such comments -- when made -- are wonderful opportunities to open up the discussion. If (and when) we have a poster say "I think Aragorn is cool" we can (and should) ask that poster why Aragorn is cool? If the poster is particularly singling out the attack at Weathertop, we ask "Why is this attack the cool part about Aragorn, rather than his ability to heal Frodo after?"

Everyone's opinion springs from a response to something in the text, and every opinion is extremely useful to everyone else's understanding. This is not just a pose I adopt for the sake of discussion on the BD, it's a truth that I live by in both my personal and professional life!

[Fingolfin II]

I think The Phantom is right when he/she says:

Critics and scholars should take a back seat to us and only be quoted if someone thinks that a point the critic/scholar makes is good and can't possibly be put into better words.

I agree that the Foreword doesn't offer much scope for many people to post, as it is concerned largely with Tolkien's motives and thoughts. However, when we discuss the actual book I think more people will participate as they'll realise they don't need to write 2 or 3 pages on the events that occur. So by following The Phantom's advice (quoted above), hopefully less people will be put off by how long the posts are and the seemingly 'deep' discussion (i.e. about Theology and other myths, etc.) and will have something worthwhile to contribute, even if it's only two or three lines long. So, Bêthberry that's what I mean about making posts 'more open and accessible' to everyone, by not getting carried away with (sometimes obscure) aspects of the book that people may not have a knowledge of, but to stick to the point and something everyone can relate to (i.e. Aragorn's quest for King). I admit that making posts 'more open and accessible' was a rather vague statement though .

In answer to your comment on the age gap between some Barrow-Downs users I totally agree. I'm only fifteen, whereas others are much older and some are even younger. This does contribute to potential misunderstandings between people who have been on for a longer time, and those who have not.

However, I also believe that while more 'experienced' posters should aim to try and make their post so everyone can reply (I realise that this is not always possible, especially in debates about HoME and The Letters), the onis should also be on new posters to contribute to the discussion themselves.

Hope that all makes sense.

EDIT: What I should have said is that the discussions should be 'more open and accessible' to everyone.

[Durelin]

I agree that the foreword isn't the most interesting part of the book for a lot of readers.

Oh rats...I think then, that I will step back and let those who find the rest of the book more interesting post their brains out!

the discussions should be 'more open and accessible' to everyone.

Are they really not accessible? I believe the accessibility of a discussion is entirely up to the individual poster. Forgive my horrid use of metaphors, but: 'the door is there, and they must open it.'

For my part, I think this 'Chapter-By-Chapter' discussion will get many new posters into the in-depth discussions, and hopefully help make them a permenant browser and poster of the Books forum. I know that this is what is has done for me, I hope. I truly have missed out for quite some time...

-Durelin