Nazguls vs. Eagles in the Black Gate

[gorthaur_cruel]

Hm...somehow nobody commented on the nazguls falling off the fell beasts, which was my main point.

To me, this explains that the Nazgul turned & fled because they were severly outnumbered. I don't doubt that even just 15-20 eagles could do in all the fell beasts (not the wraiths of course), but, by what I saw in the movies, it was implied that there was roughly 1 to 1.

They turned and fled because Sauron summoned them to try to take the Ring from Frodo, not because they couldn't beat the eagles. It is quite obvious if u quote the entire sentence...

But the Nazgul turned and fled, and vanished into Mordor's shadows, hearing a sudden terrible call out of the Dark Tower.

(italics mine)

If there's still any doubt, there's this line as well:

At his summons, wheeling with a rendering cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgul, the Ringwraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurled southwards to Mount Doom

[Bombadil]

I didn't think the Eagles scene was good for those who hadn't read the books. I'm sure it raised many questions amongst movie-goers as to why the Eagles weren't helping prior to the storming of the black gate. And then you'd have to get into a huge discussion on the Eagles and how they stand in Middle-Earth. Headache!


By the way, what's up with the end of the movie when they are carrying frodo and sam away? The Eagle picks up frodo as he's lying on his back. Therefore Frodo is facing up. This is confirmed in the close up when his head is hung backwards. But somehow an eagle flies beneath frodo in that shot- from the looks of it belly up. This would mean the eagle is flying upside down!! Hm...

[Essex]

Also, weren't the Eagles created by Manwe as some form of 'spirit'. i.e. akin to Gandalf's Istari?

Just hunting in the Silmarillion and I've found this about Manwe:

Spirits in the shape of hawks and eagles flew ever to and from his halls; and their eyes could see to the depths of the seas, and pierce the hidden caverns beneath the world. Thus they brought word to him of well nigh all that passed in Arda

And also regarding Manwe again:

Did not thy thought and mine meet also, so that we took wing together like great birds that soar above the clouds? That also shall come to be by the heed of Ilúvatar, and before the Children awake there shall go forth with wings like the wind the Eagles of the Lords of the West.' Then Yavanna was glad, and she stood up, reaching her arms towards the heavens, and she said: 'High shall climb the trees of Kementári, that the Eagles of the King may house therein!'

Also, regarding the size of the Eagles (well ok, at least Thorondor)

For Manwë to whom all birds are dear, and to whom they bring news upon Taniquetil from Middle-earth, had sent forth the race of Eagles, commanding them to dwell in the crags of the North, and to keep watch upon Morgoth; for Manwë still had pity for the exiled Elves. And the Eagles brought news of much that passed in those days to the sad ears of Manwë. Now, even as Fingon bent his bow, there flew down from the high airs Thorondor, King of Eagles, mightiest of all birds that have ever been, whose outstretched wings spanned thirty fathoms; and staying Fingon's hand he took him up, and bore him to the face of the rock where Maedhros hung.

And finally,

Then men grew afraid. 'Behold the Eagles of the Lords of the West!' they cried. 'The Eagles of Manwë are come upon Númenor!'

So I think these few examples show that the Fell Beasts (and the Nazgul, without their Lieutenant) were NO match for the Eagles of Manwe………

[Boromir88]

Essex,

You have brought up the point right there, why the eagles couldn't help from the beginning. Many people think that Radagast had control over the eagles. Radagast had no control over the eagles it was Manwe. Radagast only sent Gwaihir to get news about Gandalf (and Gwaihir agreed). Gwaihir by his own decision decided to save Gandalf, since Gandalf healed Gwaihir from a poison arrow, Gwaihir owed Gandalf one. This has been a topic I've seen discussed before, being the fact that Eagles have other things to do, and the fact that Manwe controlled the Eagles.

[The Only Real Estel]

I didn't think the Eagles scene was good for those who hadn't read the books. I'm sure it raised many questions amongst movie-goers as to why the Eagles weren't helping prior to the storming of the black gate.

Why, you're not talking about the "Why didn't Frodo just ride the eagles to Mount Doom?" argument, are you ?

Many people think that Radagast had control over the eagles. Radagast had no control over the eagles it was Manwe. Radagast only sent Gwaihir to get news about Gandalf (and Gwaihir agreed). Gwaihir by his own decision decided to save Gandalf, since Gandalf healed Gwaihir from a poison arrow, Gwaihir owed Gandalf one. This has been a topic I've seen discussed before, being the fact that Eagles have other things to do, and the fact that Manwe controlled the Eagles.

I just assumed that Gwaihir did what he pleased, being the Lord of the Eagles. And actually, Gwaihir didn't owe Gandalf anything, he had already repaid the 'poison arrow wound debt' in The Hobbit, when he rescued Gandalf & co. from the burning trees, saving them from their hastening crispy end.

They turned and fled because Sauron summoned them to try to take the Ring from Frodo, not because they couldn't beat the eagles. It is quite obvious if u quote the entire sentence...

Ah, thank you, gorthaur_cruel, that's an even better explanation then mine . I guess there's a more 'booktual' answer for you, Son of Numenor, since it's straight from the books.

[Son of Númenor]

My mistake for being too lazy to read an entire sentence. I still doubt, though, that a host of Eagles would have been defeated by the Ringwraiths, and also doubt that Tolkien, being a linguist, would have used the word "fled" if he had not meant it to connote some level of fear of the Eagles.

[Olorin_TLA]

Well there was the unimaginable fear of Sauron running through them at that moment - the fear that the Ring would be destoryed, and that He (and therefore they) would die.