Annoying Amateurs

[Knight of Gondor]

Some are annoying, yes, but nowhere near as annoying as those who know bloody everything and righteously stick it in your face, whether you asked them to or not.

Perhaps you should start a thread about annoying experts.

Myself being the most dedicated (two years and counting!) of nerds, naturally.

I first read the books when I heard rumors of the movie, and I’ve been devoted ever since.

I second that, Gil-Galad...

I met a good "amateur" today. She enjoys the movies (Frodo fancier) and she's in the middle of reading TTT. She's looking for The Silmarillion at the library. I said I'd help her read it (tough book, y'know, and I don't know that she'll like it), and guide her to sites like this. I'm so excited! I hope that she falls in love with it like I have. Then I'll have someone to talk to who I can see... I love the good newbies!

“Newbies” like that are good! They’re not annoying. We were all newbies once upon a time.

And I am betting that I will always be an amateur just because I don't have the amazing ability to read through many of Tolkien's works once and instantly know everything about it (And also I get confused while reading The Book of Lost Tales, and have recently been too cheap to go out and buy Unfinished Tales).

Don’t worry, Gorwingel! I got a little bogged down in Lost Tales 1 and 2 too! I’m only now working through UT, but I like most the stories about Númenor and Gondor and Rohan and Arnor. All those Noldor and Atari and Atani and older Elven kingdoms, while still pretty cool (as in, the stories of Tuor and Beren etc.) are so ancient, and one can get lost between all the Elven kingdoms and kings and people. I think the story of Turin is one of the saddest and unhappy tales, I don’t know what foul mood brought Tolkien to write it. But what I mean is, I prefer some of the newer stories and got a little lost myself in the older. (“Newer” and “older” meaning in terms of Middle-Earth years) If you can make it through the Silmarillion, or the Appendices if RotK, you’re probably doing good.

Although amateurs can be annoying it is funny to make them belive one of the characters dies.

*Chuckles* Yes, it is, isn’t it?

Now a few days ago he was talking to his friends and they believed that Celeborn had one of the three rings.

Even the two friends he was talking to evidently had some surface knowledge, beyond that of your average movie-goer. If you told them about Celeborn, they’d probably go “who?”

You know, there was a time not too long ago when I would have fallen into the "amatures" bin. Specifically, when I saw FotR for the first time.

Of course, we already discussed this to some extent in What Does it Take to be a Tolkien Expert, or something along those lines. No one blames anyone for being an “amateur” at all. The term is even open and subject to interpretation. What irritates us is people who pretend to know more than they do.

My parents are what you might call annoying. They care (a little) about LotR, if for no other reason than because my brother and sister love it so much. But we always have to stop and explain things for them, and repeat lines that they missed (my mom is always frustrated at Gandalf, because he really DOES mutter a whole lot, just barely able to make out his words, and she’s like “WHAT? What did he say?” and we have to repeat it), and then we have to explain and remind them of things. As in, “this guy is the guy whose brother got hit with all those arrows in the first movie. His father is the steward.” “So the steward is the king?” “No, he’s a steward, Gondor doesn’t have a king yet.” “And his son is this guy?” “Yeah, he’s the guy we saw before who meet Frodo and Sam.” “The brother with the arrows?” “Yes.”

Then there are things like “Why’s Gandalf riding out like that?” (When Mithrandir plunges forth from Minas Tirith to stave off the Nazgûl) “To frighten them off!” “Oh, with his magic wand?” “*SIGH*”. They miss a whole lot because they ask questions, then we have to remind them of things or tell them why something is going on. Mom didn’t see Théoden and Aragorn and co. riding to Edoras, so when they showed them making a toast, she was like “How’d they get there?” *Sigh* They’re fun, and it’s fun to watch a movie with someone who doesn’t know...it’s just not fun when we’re milked for all the details.

[Saraphim]

I think I fall into the "annoying experts" catagory. I have to keep reminding myself not to talk about Lord of the Rings in my daily life. It is...very hard. I get funny looks when I do because about 50 people (maybe) in Las Vegas are fans of the books. And half of them havn't done the Silmarillion and HoME.

So I have to ask my brother to beat me over the head with something blunt if I get started. ^_^

[Elora]

It's been said before, and I'm sure that most comments here are meant in jest (or at least I hope for otherwise they would cruel and nasty - worthy of the Uruk-Hai or Curufin).


I'd just like to point out that all of us started out as amateurs. We had our annoying questions and misconceptions, corrected by those patient enough around us to deal with our squeakings and by our own further study of Tolkien's work.

I will go further, and risk crucifiction but I am somewhat of a bold lass, and say that at one point Tolkien himself was an amateur. As the stories he set down took shape, so too did his knowledge of his world. Doubt me? Then take a look at the innumerable tales that were written, re-written, tossed aside, radically altered by the great man and now are offered for our reading pleasure thanks mainly to the hard work of his son, Christopher.

You'll see in those tales the evolution of what us "experts" now consider lore.

If people do not begin as amateurs, then people do not begin at all to experience Tolkien's work. It's self flattery, and intolerant, to seek to promote your own knowledge at the expense of another's desire to learn or discuss. The movies, if nothing else, have introduced this epic tale to people who would otherwise never encounter it.

Yes, some questions can be annoying. I myself am likely to trip any who dares *swoon* in my presence (to get them to the floor and out of my way all the sooner). But have a care, lest you yourself prove foolish in how you respond with them. We all started somewhere, some earlier than others and it would be unwise to forget that in ivory towers of knowledge.

Tolkien's world was big enough for 3 Ages, variant races and peoples to live, live, fight and die.... surely it's big enough to share and surely our minds are big enough to comprehend that each will have their own perspective of what Tolkien's work meant. That individual right of interpretation is inalienable, and belongs to all - be you wise lore master or stark raving idiot (and I place myself in the latter category, in case you wonder).

Have a care, is all I ask.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

LOR was meant to be a trilogy only

I'm afraid not. Actually it was published in three volumes because in the 1950s paper was very expensive in Britain. Even as it was, the first edition cost 21 shillings a volume, which made it a very expensive set indeed. The fact that it sold any copies at all is a testament to the popularity of The Hobbit.

I think that Heren Istarion's point should serve to remind us that Middle-earth is more complicated than it may seem. The Silmarillion looks authoritative until you read The History of Middle-earth, and then it's really up to the individual which of Tolkien's versions they choose to accept. Perhaps it should remind us of something else as well: there is always someone who knows more than you do, and to them you may be an annoying amateur. Don't get me wrong: I like to laugh at ignorance posing as authority as much as anyone, but we shouldn't take it to extremes and poke fun at everyone who doesn't know all the names of Tom Bombadil. It just isn't what the Downs is about.

[Snowdog]

Just throw out enough Silm and UT references (or even *gasp* truly basic LotR book references) and they get confused beyond all get out

Yeah. I have to clarify that I refer only to the 'movie-only' amateurs. Anyone who are willing to gain knowledge by reading the LotR are worthy indeed.

on the other note... the whole 'Annoying Expert' thing is worthy of its own thread.

[Lathriel]

Talking about Annoying Ammateurs how about Dummies who need to read LOTR for dummies.

There is a girl who claims she is a Ringwraith incarnate!! She is at my school and my other friend was telling me about her. Of course I almost blew up it is the most ridiculuos thing I ever heard!

There was also another girl who walked up to my gym teacher (who is a drill seargent and an american football coach) and showed him a map of ME and pointed to Mordor and told him it was Mordor, Well everybody knows where Mordor is and you don't go up to a Gym teacher to tell him the obvious!!!

[Sapphire_Flame]

"I hate reading the book-versions of movies. The people they hire to turn the movies into the books never get it right."

Now that's just horrible.

I do confess, I am guilty of falling under the "Annoying Experts" catagory (according to just about everyone I know, anyway...)

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~