high, purged of the gross: the movies

[mark12_30]

Webster's 1913 Dictionary

http://www.webster-dictionary.org/

It isn't Oxford, unfortunately, but I did find a Websters 1913 online. Tolkien was in college at that point. I think it sheds some light on his vocabulary choices.

Consider these exerpts:

cosmogonic - pertaining to the branch of astronomy dealing with the origin and history and structure and dynamics of the universe; "cosmologic science"; "cosmological redshift"; "cosmogonic theories of the origin of the universe"
Synonyms: cosmogenic, cosmogenical, cosmogonical, cosmologic, cosmological

Splen´dor
n. 1. Great brightness; brilliant luster; brilliancy; as, the splendor ot the sun.
2. Magnifience; pomp; parade; as, the splendor of equipage, ceremonies, processions, and the like.
3. Brilliancy; glory; as, the splendor of a victory.

vast:
1. Waste; desert; desolate; lonely.
The empty, vast, and wandering air. - Shak.
2. Of great extent; very spacious or large; also, huge in bulk; immense; enormous; as, the vast ocean; vast mountains; the vast empire of Russia.
Through the vast and boundless deep. - Milton.
3. Very great in numbers, quantity, or amount; as, a vast army; a vast sum of money.
4. Very great in force; mighty; as, vast labor.
5. Very great in importance; as, a subject of vast concern.

high:
1. Elevated above any starting point of measurement, as a line, or surface; having altitude; lifted up; raised or extended in the direction of the zenith; lofty; tall; as, a high mountain, tower, tree; the sun is high.
2. Regarded as raised up or elevated; distinguished; remarkable; conspicuous; superior; - used indefinitely or relatively, and often in figurative senses, which are understood from the connection
3. Elevated in character or quality, whether moral or intellectual; preëminent; honorable; as, high aims, or motives.


No´ble
a. 1. Possessing eminence, elevation, dignity, etc.; above whatever is low, mean, degrading, or dishonorable; magnanimous; as, a noble nature or action; a noble heart.
Statues, with winding ivy crowned, belong
To nobler poets for a nobler song. - Dryden.
2. Grand; stately; magnificent; splendid; as, a noble edifice.


Purged of the gross:

v. t. 1. To cleanse, clear, or purify by separating and carrying off whatever is impure, heterogeneous, foreign, or superfluous.
[imp. & p. p. Purged ; p. pr. & vb. n. Purging .]
...
5. To clear from guilt, or from moral or ceremonial defilement; as, to purge one of guilt or crime.
When that he hath purged you from sin. - Chaucer.
Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean.

gross - twelve dozen. Synonyms: 144. (Number of Hobbits invited to hear Bilbo's speech.)

More common definitions:
1. Great; large...
2. Coarse; rough; not fine or delicate.
3. Not easily aroused or excited; not sensitive in perception or feeling; dull; witless.
Tell her of things that no gross ear can hear. - Milton.
4. Expressing, or originating in, animal or sensual appetites; hence, coarse, vulgar, low, obscene, or impure.
The terms which are delicate in one age become gross in the next. - Macaulay.
5. Disgusting; repulsive; highly offensive; as, a gross remark.

[Essex]

Mark, you're using an american dictionary to describe tolkien's words? JRR would turn in his grave!!!!!

[mark12_30]

Online Oxford costs money to join.

The 1913 Webster definitions have the right flavor, as I understand them. If someone who has an early-20th-century Oxford would like to check my definitions I'd be most pleased. I *may* have access to one in a particular bible software package-- not sure-- but I have to find time to install it! For today Websters will have to do...

[Gorwingel]

Well I just have to bring this up (I know this has been discussed before). In my opinion I personally think that Tolkien would have gone crazy over the entire "Faramir taking Frodo and Sam to Osgilith" scene. It is just that I thought (as many others did also) this part went terribily against the spirit of the book, the characters (it very much made Faramir for me much less of an honorable person, because he did something I would never, ever expect the book Faramir ever to do), and it had some terrible lines to boot!

I also believe that Tolkien would have disliked the length of many of the battle scenes just because they took away from the language, and the actual communication of the characters in the book. In addition the battles also allowed the addition of much of the modern language in the films (quotes in posts above).

But Jackson did a wonderful job, and probably the best of jobs expected

[PaleStar]

If we think about this..
Perhaps Tolkien would've been happy to see an adapation of his books not directed by Ralph Bakishi, but I can tell that, while he would not have been as upset as the estate is, it seems highly unlikely that he would regard the movies highly, if, indeed he ever saw them at all.
let's remember that, if Tolkien were still alive to see the movies, he would've been over one hundred years old, and perhaps not be able, physicly, to sit through them. Plus, there's the thought of how he'd be mangaging mentaly; no doubt that he'd still be sad, however much, but the loss of his wife Edith.
Besides, he wasn't one for the modern conviences; after all, he's the creator of a world with almost no recognizable technology, save a windmill in the Shire and the crude seige machinery of the orcs. Even if he was well and able enough, i think he'd just refuse to go. Or perhaps not; he'd be upset with a majority of FOTR, that's for sure. It definetly suffered the worst adapatation out of all three parts, but I'm not him, so I don't know his reaction.

Sorry if that seems to be taking the question too literally; but it does answer the question, right?

[mark12_30]

Gorwingel wrote:

this part went terribily against the spirit of the book, the characters (it very much made Faramir for me much less of an honorable person, because he did something I would never, ever expect the book Faramir ever to do), and it had some terrible lines to boot!

Interesting. (And I agree, it annoys me too.)

Why is it so annoying?

Why did he develop Faramir as such an extremely honorable person, I wonder? Is Faramir a caricature of honor, or are there really human beings like that?

[Essex]

Faramir is a man of his WORD. He did not know it was the Ring of Power when he stated he would not pick it up if it were lying on the road. Once he realised what it was, he felt bound to his word, and let Frodo go.

[mark12_30]

[QUOTE=PaleStar]If we think about this..
Perhaps Tolkien would've been happy to see an adapation of his books not directed by Ralph Bakishi, but I can tell that, while he would not have been as upset as the estate is, it seems highly unlikely that he would regard the movies highly, if, indeed he ever saw them at all....
Besides, he wasn't one for the modern conviences; after all, he's the creator of a world with almost no recognizable technology, save a windmill in the Shire and the crude seige machinery of the orcs. ...
Or perhaps not; he'd be upset with a majority of FOTR, that's for sure. It definetly suffered the worst adapatation out of all three parts, but I'm not him, so I don't know his reaction.
QUOTE]

Palestar, I've been thinking about your post for a bit and you 've come up with some interesting points. Aside from his being disinclined to sit in a movie theater for hours on end, do you think he would have been pleased with the way that the movies told the story, and whether the movies fulfilled his story-ideals and story-hopes in the sense that his books did?

[The Saucepan Man]

... do you think he would have been pleased with the way that the movies told the story, and whether the movies fulfilled his story-ideals and story-hopes in the sense that his books did?

Related link:

Do you think Tolkien would be insulted by the LOTR movies?