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#1 | |
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Deadnight Chanter
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![]() But I think there is a bit more to it. Frodo's person is quite a composite and contains a load of hints to load of things First, let me retain my Norse mythology connotations to his name (I'm glad to accept the 'wise by experience' explanation by Fordim Hedgethistle too and incorporate it into) But, remembering Tolkien's famous 'consciously so in the revision' quotation, let me be so bold to mark that Frodo at the same time is Christ-like figure (so is Aragorn, per instance, but that is to be seen later on) Note one of the similarities - to be revealed in the very first chapter, and heavily stressed upon - Frodo receives the Ring (may I say, his cross?) when he is 33 years old. Having in mind that he is to become the saviour of whole ME later on in the story, it certainly rings certain bells. It seems to me that in Frodo Tolkien tries to unite Christian myth with those of the pagan mythologies of the north-west of Europe. He certainly employes what C.S.Lewis was referring to as the reflections of True Myth (True Myth referring to incarnation of Christ) scattered across pagan myths (dying god of corn to bring new life). Frodo is to do exactly this - he is to die (in a sense, his departure from ME by the end of the book is death, and, if another sense of death is to loose this world, than Frodo certainly looses it), but than, Frodo does let the world live on by it. And with all this in mind, Frodo's Ring (very strikingly referred to as 'burden' throughout the narration) comes to him as he reaches 33 years of age.
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! |
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#2 |
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Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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Yes, 33 does ring a bell, but alas Frodo does not take up his burden at thirty, and dawdles a bit before heading down that road, a bit of a reluctant savior in contrast. Perhaps Tolkien only wants to hint at that reflection of True Myth. Frodo is a hobbit and not a god, after all. But the idea of him returning to the Shire for a time, and then sailing west strikes me as a wonderful parallel, as is the change in his friends upon returning to the Shire.
But it seems, I'm having trouble sticking to the first chapter here. Many apologies!
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#3 | |
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Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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You are right also, I think, that this hints at the turmoil that Frodo is to undergo. Perhaps it also foreshadows the choice that he ultimately has to make between his beloved Shire and a higher calling in the Undying Lands. The fact that the non-Hobbitish characteristics are the less superficial, and perhaps represent the real Frodo, suggests that his ultimate choice can never really have been in any doubt. But for the Quest, he would surely have ended up in Rivendell or somewhere similar, like Bilbo.
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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#4 | |
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Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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Helen,
Your characterization of the "divided" Frodo is very perceptive. This is what I was inching towards when I said that not only was Frodo different from his Hobbit neighbors but even from folk like Merry and Bilbo who were his most intimate companions. You are right to identify these inner doubts or division as the source of that difference. Frodo may huzzah with his friends or dance on tables, but underneath other things are going on. SPm, Quote:
The final version of the scene that we have -- the confrontation between Gandalf and Bilbo -- is even stronger than draft 6. I'm not sure when this came in as I haven't read that far in Return of the Shadow! If I find out, I'll add another note. So perhaps, as the story developed, certain long-standing themes such as this were strengthened and emphasized as the story developed.
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. Last edited by Child of the 7th Age; 06-25-2004 at 03:30 PM. |
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#5 |
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Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Thanks for that, Child. Interesting that the confrontation between Gandalf and Bilbo was not at first as strong as it appears in the final version. Tolkien may initially have been concerned not to have Gandalf seem too intimidating. Personally, I feel he plays it very well in the final version since he is able to establish Gandalf's power and authority right from the outset, while handling it sufficiently sensitively not to risk having Bilbo-loving readers question his motives. This he acheives by having Bilbo act irrationally (Gollum-like) and out of character in such a way that we can understand that there is something else at work here. In other words, it is the Ring and its effect on Bilbo, and not Gandalf, causing the problem. Indeed Gandalf acts totally reasonably, reasoning with Bilbo and referring to their long-standing friendship before resorting to intimidation. Even then, he reassures Bilbo that he is trying to help him rather than rob him. And the moment passes quickly, Gandalf seeming troubled in consequence. It is crucial that we trust Gandalf's instincts at this point and, to my mind, Tolkien handles it very well.
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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#6 | ||||
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Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Where you want me to be
Posts: 1,036
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Saucepan Man said- Quote:
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Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. Last edited by Fingolfin II; 06-26-2004 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Spelling |
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#7 | ||||||||
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Vice of Twilight
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: on a mountain
Posts: 1,121
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Bah, humbug! Late, late. I'm still working my way through Chapter I, which means I'm four chapters behind everyone else. As our dear Mr. Bilbo Baggins would say: 'Time!' A sorry lack of it. Now, I've jotted down all my confused musings on various passages from the books, organized them, rethought them, and now I post them. In this post I am mainly concentrating on the contrast between young hobbits and old hobbits, and the different curiosities of hobbits, and etc.
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Why must the older generation take the more sensible view? Sam, to the very last, retained an image that was like a child's: an image full of elusiveness, wanting to imagine everything as being more mystical and wonderful as it is. Sam was always so thoroughly childish (in that sense; he was rarely [if ever] immature), and this is one of the reasons I enjoy his character so much. He never lost his fascination for Elves and Dragons. Now what strikes me as curious is that Sandyman, who would most likely be of the older generation, seems to lean towards the side of the youngsters, and wants to persist that Mr. Bilbo does have tunnels stuffed with treasure ('adding to what he brought at first,' he says). This intrigued me. Would it be because Sandyman has a contrary nature and would take the opposite side of the Gaffer just to oppose him, or did it occur to anyone else as it occurred to me that much of Sandyman's behavior comes from not so much plain wickedness as from immaturity, and that this immaturity might also show in aspects other than his attitude? Just a thought? Quote:
Now during the party it says 'there was a splendid supper for everyone; for everyone, that is, except those invited to the special family dinner-party.' Considering the fondness hobbits have for food, mightn't those invited to the special dinner-party feel a little envious that they couldn't be partaking of the splendid supper, that they would have to wait? Or do you suppose that they were content with thinking of what awaited them at a later date? Quote:
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Through the first chapter only, to say nothing of the prologue or other chapters, it can be ascertained that hobbits are a very curious race, and absolutely devoted to food. Yet aside from a few outstanding oddities it strikes me that hobbits are not very much different from ourselves. |
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