high, purged of the gross: the movies - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Essex · 06-25-2004, 04:00 AM

Mark, you're using an american dictionary to describe tolkien's words? JRR would turn in his grave!!!!!

mark12_30 · 06-25-2004, 06:36 AM

Online Oxford costs money to join.

The 1913 Webster definitions have the right flavor, as I understand them. If someone who has an early-20th-century Oxford would like to check my definitions I'd be most pleased. I *may* have access to one in a particular bible software package-- not sure-- but I have to find time to install it! For today Websters will have to do...

Gorwingel · 06-26-2004, 01:16 AM

Well I just have to bring this up (I know this has been discussed before). In my opinion I personally think that Tolkien would have gone crazy over the entire "Faramir taking Frodo and Sam to Osgilith" scene. It is just that I thought (as many others did also) this part went terribily against the spirit of the book, the characters (it very much made Faramir for me much less of an honorable person, because he did something I would never, ever expect the book Faramir ever to do), and it had some terrible lines to boot!

I also believe that Tolkien would have disliked the length of many of the battle scenes just because they took away from the language, and the actual communication of the characters in the book. In addition the battles also allowed the addition of much of the modern language in the films (quotes in posts above).

But Jackson did a wonderful job, and probably the best of jobs expected

PaleStar · 06-26-2004, 02:28 AM

If we think about this..
Perhaps Tolkien would've been happy to see an adapation of his books not directed by Ralph Bakishi, but I can tell that, while he would not have been as upset as the estate is, it seems highly unlikely that he would regard the movies highly, if, indeed he ever saw them at all.
let's remember that, if Tolkien were still alive to see the movies, he would've been over one hundred years old, and perhaps not be able, physicly, to sit through them. Plus, there's the thought of how he'd be mangaging mentaly; no doubt that he'd still be sad, however much, but the loss of his wife Edith.
Besides, he wasn't one for the modern conviences; after all, he's the creator of a world with almost no recognizable technology, save a windmill in the Shire and the crude seige machinery of the orcs. Even if he was well and able enough, i think he'd just refuse to go. Or perhaps not; he'd be upset with a majority of FOTR, that's for sure. It definetly suffered the worst adapatation out of all three parts, but I'm not him, so I don't know his reaction.

Sorry if that seems to be taking the question too literally; but it does answer the question, right?

mark12_30 · 06-28-2004, 08:05 PM

Gorwingel wrote:

Quote:

this part went terribily against the spirit of the book, the characters (it very much made Faramir for me much less of an honorable person, because he did something I would never, ever expect the book Faramir ever to do), and it had some terrible lines to boot!

Interesting. (And I agree, it annoys me too.)

Why is it so annoying?

Why did he develop Faramir as such an extremely honorable person, I wonder? Is Faramir a caricature of honor, or are there really human beings like that?

Essex · 06-29-2004, 03:33 AM

Faramir is a man of his WORD. He did not know it was the Ring of Power when he stated he would not pick it up if it were lying on the road. Once he realised what it was, he felt bound to his word, and let Frodo go.

mark12_30 · 06-29-2004, 06:57 AM

[QUOTE=PaleStar]If we think about this..
Perhaps Tolkien would've been happy to see an adapation of his books not directed by Ralph Bakishi, but I can tell that, while he would not have been as upset as the estate is, it seems highly unlikely that he would regard the movies highly, if, indeed he ever saw them at all....
Besides, he wasn't one for the modern conviences; after all, he's the creator of a world with almost no recognizable technology, save a windmill in the Shire and the crude seige machinery of the orcs. ...
Or perhaps not; he'd be upset with a majority of FOTR, that's for sure. It definetly suffered the worst adapatation out of all three parts, but I'm not him, so I don't know his reaction.
QUOTE]

Palestar, I've been thinking about your post for a bit and you 've come up with some interesting points. Aside from his being disinclined to sit in a movie theater for hours on end, do you think he would have been pleased with the way that the movies told the story, and whether the movies fulfilled his story-ideals and story-hopes in the sense that his books did?

**The Saucepan Man** · 06-29-2004, 08:38 AM

Quote:

... do you think he would have been pleased with the way that the movies told the story, and whether the movies fulfilled his story-ideals and story-hopes in the sense that his books did?

Related link:

Do you think Tolkien would be insulted by the LOTR movies?

mark12_30 · 06-29-2004, 01:40 PM

Thanks for the link, Saucie.

When I say "do you think he would have been pleased" with the movies, what I am getting at is, would Tolkien find that the movies succeeded in portraying Middle-Earth as:

Quote:

...the fair elusive beauty that some call Celtic .....'high', purged of the gross...steeped in poetry... great tales in fullness... majestic....

...etc?

06-25-2004, 06:36 AM	#2
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Online Oxford costs money to join. The 1913 Webster definitions have the right flavor, as I understand them. If someone who has an early-20th-century Oxford would like to check my definitions I'd be most pleased. I may have access to one in a particular bible software package-- not sure-- but I have to find time to install it! For today Websters will have to do... __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

06-26-2004, 01:16 AM	#3
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	Well I just have to bring this up (I know this has been discussed before). In my opinion I personally think that Tolkien would have gone crazy over the entire "Faramir taking Frodo and Sam to Osgilith" scene. It is just that I thought (as many others did also) this part went terribily against the spirit of the book, the characters (it very much made Faramir for me much less of an honorable person, because he did something I would never, ever expect the book Faramir ever to do), and it had some terrible lines to boot! I also believe that Tolkien would have disliked the length of many of the battle scenes just because they took away from the language, and the actual communication of the characters in the book. In addition the battles also allowed the addition of much of the modern language in the films (quotes in posts above). But Jackson did a wonderful job, and probably the best of jobs expected __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

06-26-2004, 02:28 AM	#4
PaleStar Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 43	If we think about this.. Perhaps Tolkien would've been happy to see an adapation of his books not directed by Ralph Bakishi, but I can tell that, while he would not have been as upset as the estate is, it seems highly unlikely that he would regard the movies highly, if, indeed he ever saw them at all. let's remember that, if Tolkien were still alive to see the movies, he would've been over one hundred years old, and perhaps not be able, physicly, to sit through them. Plus, there's the thought of how he'd be mangaging mentaly; no doubt that he'd still be sad, however much, but the loss of his wife Edith. Besides, he wasn't one for the modern conviences; after all, he's the creator of a world with almost no recognizable technology, save a windmill in the Shire and the crude seige machinery of the orcs. Even if he was well and able enough, i think he'd just refuse to go. Or perhaps not; he'd be upset with a majority of FOTR, that's for sure. It definetly suffered the worst adapatation out of all three parts, but I'm not him, so I don't know his reaction. Sorry if that seems to be taking the question too literally; but it does answer the question, right? __________________ Then down the warrior tumbled/a long and weary way/ 'till at last he rested soundly/ among the water below/ bested by the darkness

06-29-2004, 06:57 AM	#7
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	[QUOTE=PaleStar]If we think about this.. Perhaps Tolkien would've been happy to see an adapation of his books not directed by Ralph Bakishi, but I can tell that, while he would not have been as upset as the estate is, it seems highly unlikely that he would regard the movies highly, if, indeed he ever saw them at all.... Besides, he wasn't one for the modern conviences; after all, he's the creator of a world with almost no recognizable technology, save a windmill in the Shire and the crude seige machinery of the orcs. ... Or perhaps not; he'd be upset with a majority of FOTR, that's for sure. It definetly suffered the worst adapatation out of all three parts, but I'm not him, so I don't know his reaction. QUOTE] Palestar, I've been thinking about your post for a bit and you 've come up with some interesting points. Aside from his being disinclined to sit in a movie theater for hours on end, do you think he would have been pleased with the way that the movies told the story, and whether the movies fulfilled his story-ideals and story-hopes in the sense that his books did? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

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06-25-2004, 04:00 AM	#1
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Mark, you're using an american dictionary to describe tolkien's words? JRR would turn in his grave!!!!!

06-29-2004, 03:33 AM	#6
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Faramir is a man of his WORD. He did not know it was the Ring of Power when he stated he would not pick it up if it were lying on the road. Once he realised what it was, he felt bound to his word, and let Frodo go.