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Old 06-26-2004, 05:44 AM   #1
Tindomë
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Question Sorry

I don't have the HoME,and I just want to ask a question :what differences are they between the list of the Bilbo's gifts in the first version and the same in the final book?
It's because a silly bet I made,so I'm sorry to trouble your very serious debate with a so trivial question...

Thanks

(I'm french so if you think that my english is horrible,don't worry,I think so)
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Old 06-26-2004, 06:43 AM   #2
Bęthberry
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davem, and also Child and Esty,

I have only volumes II and XII, so I won't be able to follow along here--except teasingly as I have with Heren, who graciously accepted my humour--but I am very intrigued by the "six narrative voices" in the drafts.

davem has kindly at length copied excerpts from Paul Edmund Thomas' essay, but I would find it easier to consider his question about storyline or narrator if I could see some examples, not of Thomas' explication, but of Tolkien's own writing.

Is is possible to copy here a similar passage in the different narrative voices? Or if not, is is possible to take a passage which represents the tone of each narrative voice and present it here?

Child,

Quote:
However did he come up with so many of these themes and ideas in the first six weeks of writing?
The variations you point out are fascinating. If I have read your excerpts correctly, Tolkien started out with some first idea of a character for this Dark Lord, who then became excised from subsequent drafts as an explicit character. If this suppostion is correct, it makes the final depiction of Sauron very interesting: a focus upon an opposing character who ultimately became absent, if I am making myself clear here! (I'm sure this point, too, should be followed through all revisions and drafts and not merely this six drafts of the first part.)

It would seem to me that Tolkien had many, many ideas and directions rambling around in that restless imagination of his and that in the process of writing something decided him upon the best way to proceed.

Here's hoping I don't have my foot on my keyboard, so to speak, since I don't have the relevant HoME.
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:00 PM   #3
davem
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Bethberry

First version:

When Bilbo, son of Bungo of the family of Baggins ... prepared to celebrate his seventieth birthday there was for a day or two some talk in the neighbourhood. He had once had a little fleeting fame among the people of Hobbiton & Bywater - he had disappeared after breakfast one April 30th & not reappeared until lunchtime on June 22nd in the following year. A very odd proceeding for which he had never given any good reason, & of which he wrote a nonsensical account. After that he returned to normal ways; & the shaken confidence of the district was gradually restored.

Second version:

When Bilbo, son of Bungo, of the respectable family of Baggins prepared to celebrate his seventy first birthday there waas some little talk in the neighbourhood, & people polished up their memories. Bilbo had once had some brief notoriety among the hobbits of Hobbiton & Bywater - he had disappeared after breakfast one April 30th & had not reappeared until lunch time on June 22nd in the following year. A very odd proceeding, & one for which he had never accounted satisfactorily. He wrote a book about it, of course: but even those who had read it never took it that seriously. It is no good talking to hobbits about dragons: they either disbelieve you, or feel uncomfortable; & in either case tend to avoid you afterwards.

(CRT states the third & fourth versions are virtually the same - except for the names - but that Tolkien continues to intensify the irony in the narrators voice.)

Fifth version:

(doesn't give full text, but adds

He told many tales of his adventures, of course, to those who would listen. But most of the hobbits soon got tired of them, & only one or two of his friends ever took them seriously. It is no good telling ordinary hobbits about dragons: they either disbelieve you or want to disbelieve you, & in either case stop listening. As he grew older Bilbo wrote his adventures in a private book of memoirs, in which he recounted some things that he had never spoken about (such as the magic ring); but that book was never published in the Shire, & he never showed it to anyone except his favourite nephew Bingo.

Sixth version:

When Mr Bilbo Baggins of Bag-end, Under-hill, announced that he would shortly be celebrating his eleventy first birthday with a party of special magnificence, there was much talk & excitement in Hobbiton. Before long rumour of the event travelled all over the Shire, & the history & character of Mr Baggins became once again the most popular topic of conversation. the older folk who remembered something of the strange happenings sixty years before found their reminicences suddenly in demand, & rose to the gratifying occasion with entertaining invention when mere facts failed them.

No one had a more attentive audience than old Ham Gamgee, commonly known as the Gaffer. He held forth at the Ivy Bush.

Tindome

First version of Bilbo's gifts:

'For Semolina Baggins, with love from her nephew', on a waste paper basket - she had wrotten him a deal of letters (mostly of good advice). 'For Caramella Took, with kind remembrances from her uncle', on a clock in the hall. Though unpunctual she had been a niece he rather liked, until coming late one day she had declared his clock was fast. Bilbo's clocks were never either slow or fast, & he did not forget it. 'For Obo Took-Took, from his great-nephew', on a feather bed; Obo was seldom awake before 12 noon or after tea, & snored. 'For Gorboduc Grubb with best wishes from B Baggins' - on a gold fountain pen; he never answered letters. 'For Angelica's use' on a mirror - she was a young Baggins & thought herself very comely. 'For Inigo Grubb- Took', on a complete dinner service - he was the greediest hobbit known to history. 'For Amalda Sackville-Baggins as a present', on a case of silver spoons. She was Bilbo's cousin, the one he had discovered years ago on his return measuring his dining-room (you may remember his suspicions about disappearing spoons: anyway neither he nor Amalda had forgotten)
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:31 PM   #4
Tindomë
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Silmaril Thanks

Thank you very very very very very much !

Puissent les Valar toujours éclairer votre route
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