Tolkien and the Monsters

[The Saucepan Man]

Of course, I still don’t know what this “evil knowledge” might be that starts off the whole process! I think if we can figure that out, we’ll get a lot further than arguing about the potential for repentance upon the part of orcs…

OK. I'll try one more time to explain the point that I am trying to make.

Fordim, you place Orcs, Wargs and the like furthest down on your "heirarchy of evil". These creatures are not interested in seeking "evil knowledge" as you put it. They act in a cruel and wicked manner because that is their nature. So how can they truly be described as evil at all if they have no choice but to act in the way that they do? In other words, it might be said that these creatures are not in fact evil, but simply "beasts" pressed into evil service in the same way that Oliphaunts are.

Conceivably, the same could be said of Shelob. Did she ever have any choice in her insistent desire to devour, or is it simply part of her nature? I would suspect the latter, in which case perhaps she too is not really evil. (Incidentally, what makes you think that she is a maia? I appreciate that there is an argument for Ungoliant being one of the maiar although it is not clear, but I am not aware of any suggestion that her spawn were of that nature.)

To sum up, however, the point that I am trying to make is that, to my mind, evil requires some degree of choice. If a creature does not have that choice, can it truly be evil? And doesn't this question go to the very heart of the nature of evil in Middle-earth?