Revelations and Realizations

[Guinevere]

I am sure no one in this forum would think that, ninlaith!

"Something wicked this way comes!" I thought that was Shakespeare! (Macbeth)
And where in Tolkien's work did you find that phrase, pray ?

[Bombadil]

I believe that is Macbeth. Ironic it is too, for the witches say it about Macbeth.

[ninlaith]

oh don't get me wrong it was in that English play ,however, it was said by Sam in one of the last chapters of ROTK I can't remember for the life of me which but i remember thinking wait...that song in Harry Potter said that...sorry I just have alot of friends who like Harry Potter and choose to pick a fight about who was the better author and who said what first.......sorry. oh well everyone else wins i lose.

[Bombadil]

That's cool, I didn't know it was used in LOTR. Oi, I don't think you can compare the two authors. J.K. Rowling's books give me a different sort of thrill, one so different than what I get from Tolkien's books, it's easy to find those who are fans of one and not the other.

[ninlaith]

That's a very good point. I'll warrant there's only one person I know that doesn't like LOTR much but that's because he hasn't read the books yet. And basically that's what most people say but everyone else I know loves both. And they do spark different sort of enchantments on the mind.

[Ardamir the Blessed]

The phrase 'something wicked this way comes' is not in LOTR. I did a search.

[Lobelia]

Originally Posted by Bombadil

I believe that is Macbeth. Ironic it is too, for the witches say it about Macbeth.

Quite right! To be precise, "By the pricking of my thumbs/Something wicked this way comes."

As for JKR and the phrase, it wasn't even in the novel, only part of a choral piece in the film, based on the Shakespeare text.

Tolkien didn't even LIKE Shakespeare and he felt right cheated by Macbeth, especially the Birnam Wood business, which, as we know, was one of the reasons for the Ents, i.e. what if Birnam Wood really did come to Dunsinane? I am quite sure he would have been offended at the notion that he had a character quote from the Bard!

[The Saucepan Man]

Tolkien didn't even LIKE Shakespeare and he felt right cheated by Macbeth, especially the Birnam Wood business, which, as we know, was one of the reasons for the Ents, i.e. what if Birnam Wood really did come to Dunsinane?

I am not sure that Tolkien had a wholesale dislike of Shakespeare, although the line from Macbeth which you refer to certainly irked him and was the inspiration for the Ents' march on Isengard.

Whatever feelings he may have had with regard to Shakespeare's works, however, it didn't stop him nicking and adapting for Aragorn the "All that glisters is not gold" line from Merchant of Venice.

[ninlaith]

It's in there. I'm sure you read all three books word for word in the last 24 hours.

[Guinevere]

it didn't stop him nicking and adapting for Aragorn the "All that glisters is not gold" line from Merchant of Venice.

Now that is just a common, widespread proverb, so you can't say Tolkien quoted Shakespeare when he used it! (and he turned it around: "all that is gold does not glitter"!)

And apropos the witches in Macbeth: in "On Fairy-stories" Tolkien wrote that he thought them tolerable when just reading the play, but on stage he didn't approve of them at all! (And he did write about Shakespeare "Which I disliked cordially" in letter 163)

I am quite sure he did not use that phrase! I'm fairly certain I would have noticed and not forgotten about it. (If I think of all the "proverbs" and wise sayings I collected... Have a look at the quotable quotes, ninlaith, you can see that there are people here who do remember lots of sentences literally!)

[Lalaith]

Ninlaith, it is also quite easy to do a quick and comprehensive search of LotR if you have a pdf copy of it on your computer desktop...*whistles nonchalantly*