LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 04 – A Short Cut to Mushrooms

[davem]

Originally Posted by Fordim

I rather suspect that Tolkien spelled it that way not because it was old and archaic the way that "thees" and "thous" are (that is, nobody uses them anymore), but because it was how the word was spelled in his own childhood in the part of the world he grew up in.

As a Yorkshireman I can't let this pass! thee, thine, thou (usually contracted to tha') are still common in Yorkshire dialect, as are middle english words like 'lake'/'laking' = play/playing. ('That's thine, tha' 'nus' = 'That's your's, you know'. 'Gi' o'er lakin' abaht' = 'Give over (stop) playing around')

Not perhaps a trivial point given Tolkien's interest in the way language both changes & survives over periods.

On to the 'loneliness' of the nazgul. One thing that I find interesting in Tolkien is that names have meanings - every place & personal name means something, & often has a story attatched, a history. We only know two of the nazgul the Witch King of Angmar, & Khamul (&isn't Khamul a title) Do any of them still have personal names, or have they gone the way of the Mouth of Sauron? If they have no names, they have no lifestory, no personal history, no memories - were they married, did they have children? We'll never know about most of them, & we have very little knowledge about the Witch King - ironically, his enemies probably know more about him than he does himself. Imagine having no identity, no past, being simply driven by the will of Sauron. I wonder if the terror they inspire in others is perhaps down to those others catching some kind of glimpse into what it is to be a Nazgul. When you encounter a nazgul, its like looking suddenly into nothingness.

[Osse]

<shudder>

Good speculations dav...

Farmer Maggot knew that he was probably putting himself in some danger by harbouring the other hobbits, yet he could not possibly fathom how much, nor how terrible. Maggot was willing to "see off" the 'men', with his dogs and his axe!

I wonder if he'd still have been willing to help if he had known the peril he was in. I'd say probably yes. Rather than see the four hobbits face that peril alone, he'd try and help. But perhaps if he knew the real threat, things would not have gone as well!

[Boromir88]

Osse,

I believe the Farmer, if he knew the full peril, probably still would have helped. Maggot said something like "I'll send off those riders, I'll tell them you're dead...I'll protect you." So, for me I believe he would have helped out, but he wouldn't have been much help. If the riders found out Maggot was "harbouring" them Maggot would have been no match for ONE RIDER!!! Farmer Maggot did his job and helped out the hobbits in whatever way he could, I can ask no more for him.

[The Saucepan Man]

While Maggot could have no way of knowing the true nature of the Black Rider, he nevertheless does show great bravery in light of the facts that he does know.

He is faced with an imposing black-cloaked fellow on horseback. His normally fearsome dogs have just sloped off in terror. It must have been clear to him that this fellow could do him great harm if he chose to. And yet he gives him short shrift, telling him to clear off. And when the Rider asks him to tell him if he sees "Baggins", tempting him with the promise of gold, Maggot makes clear that he will not do so.

It is to Farmer Maggot's great credit that, at great risk to himself, he offers the Hobbits shelter and drives them to the Buckleberry Ferry. Combined with Gaffer Gamgee's similar steadfastness in the previous chapter and Sam's resolve to stick with Frodo whatever the danger, this is real evidence of what we were told in the Prologue about Hobbits being "tough" and "difficult to daunt". We are beginning to get a good idea of the great courage that these small folk are capable of, and which will come to characterise them later on, Sam in particular.

On another subject, has anyone else noticed the recurring theme of nurturing and protective trees? In the previous chapter, they make camp on the first night in a patch of fir wood, within the "deep resin-scented darkness of the trees". The next day, they take a meal inside "the huge hulk" of a hollow but living tree. And they spend the second night with the Elves in a "wide space like a hall, roofed by the boughs of trees". Then, this chapter opens with Frodo having slept in a bower:

... made by a living tree with branches laced and drooping to the ground; his bed was of fern and grass, deep and soft and strangely fragrant. The sun was shining through the fluttering leaves, which were still green upon the tree.

And later, when they take lunch, they shelter from the rain beneath an elm tree. Indeed, the belt of trees provides cover for them from the Black Riders and they feel afraid at first when they leave its shelter.

Not surprising I suppose, given Tolkien's love of trees, but the extent to which they are used as a device to provide the Hobbits with rest, shelter and safety in these two chapters rather struck me (and is a precursor to the safe haven provided by the forest of Lothlorien).

Of course, some of them will find themselves inside another tree in two chapter's time, although one of an altogether different nature ...

Finally, two words that struck me as interesting:

The kitchen was lit with candles and the fire was mended.

and

Mrs. Maggot will be worriting with the night getting thick.

I like the idea of a fire being mended, since it suggests that its natural state is alight and that it is somehow "broken" when extinguished. And "worriting" is just a great word: one which I now intend to make great use of.

[Bêthberry]

Why, SpM, it is a pleasure to see you taking up my point in the the third post here about the value of the Maggots.

Well, I for one would be very happy to have neighbours such as Farmer and Mrs. Maggot. Their hospitality, nay, even more, their courage and active support, says much positive to me about The Shire.

Is it immodest to quote oneself? I think not, given some of the hesitations we have seen here about the Farmer and his missus.

It would probably be well to point out, if the image is not too earthy for some, that maggots, the creatures, eat dead flesh.

[The Saucepan Man]

Why, SpM, it is a pleasure to see you taking up my point in the the third post here about the value of the Maggots.

Hehe. When bereft of original thought, simply pass someone else's off as your own. (It was wholly unintentional, I can assure you. )

Well, I for one would be very happy to have neighbours such as Farmer and Mrs. Maggot. Their hospitality, nay, even more, their courage and active support, says much positive to me about The Shire.

Funnily enough, it is Maggot's Hobbitish parochial nature (a quality that has been commented on negatively in earlier discussions) which, at least in part, leads him to distrust this "outlandish" outlander. As I think has been mentioned before, though, it seems somehow incongruous that someone so insular (as evidenced in his comments on the folk of Hobbiton) should have dealings with a strange fellow like Tom Bombadil.

It would probably be well to point out, if the image is not too earthy for some, that maggots, the creatures, eat dead flesh.

For this reason, maggots were (and indeed still are) used to clean wounds. Would it be going too far to suggest that this might be symbolic of the safe haven the Maggots offer after the Hobbits' harrowing journey? (Answer = probably. )

[Bêthberry]

When bereft of original thought, simply pass someone else's off as your own.

Rather, share and share alike, I'd say.

Yes, I knew that about the use of maggots in cleaning wounds, having heard a story of one poor chap whose friend snuck a bottle of spirits up to his room. The spirits might have improved the patient's spirits for a time but they unfortunately also killed the maggots. The patient died of his gangrene.

My thoughts about the symbolic portent of 'maggot' were slightly different than yours, Sauce. I thought of Farmer Maggot's courage and refusal to be cowed by the Black Rider. Maggot eradicates the stench of fear. I guess technically, though, we don't know yet that the Black Riders are artificially preserved flesh, do we? Gah, can't even remember chapters I read a week ago.