Elrond, why? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-22-2004, 09:07 PM

My friends and I have often had a discussion on this topic. What we conclued was that war that would have resulted from Elrond killing Isildur. Not that I am saying he shouldn't of done it, but Elves and men would be at each others throats because Elrond killed the King of men and also wasn't Isilidur's son staying with Elrond (or was that later) so Rivendel would have been attacked. Elves and men would have killed eachother off so all that would be left would be drawves and hobbits. I am not sure that would be a good idea.

Vanya · 07-26-2004, 03:58 AM

I agree with few last posts; we mustn't mix movie and book. And, war would be inevitable if Elrond attacked Isildur. I think they were very close friends and alies, (and relatives) and even if Elrond did realised at that moment the consequences of Isildur's act, it is normal that he still hasitated. And I think that nobody really knew the nature of the Ring, in details that we know.

Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 · 07-26-2004, 08:14 AM

I agree with Vanya...Indeed, I have always been confused over where that scene was derived from...And not having the books with me at the moment I can't even look it up. Just how much of the scene from the film was in the books? (And which books, because I don't remember it being anywhere in Lord of the Rings).

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 07-27-2004, 06:32 AM

The movie scene wasn't too bad compared to the book. The only major difference was that the actual book event took place on the slopes of the mountain, as opposed to inside, right next to the fire.

I think there were more people present than just Elrond and Isildur but the point still got across well.

Angry Hill Troll · 07-27-2004, 08:59 AM

Elrond says the following at the Council (FOTR II, Ch2):

Quote:

It should have been cast then into Orodruin's fire nigh at hand where it was made. But few marked what Isildur did. He alone stood by his father in that last mortal contest; and by Gil-Galad only Círdan stood, and I. But Isildur would not listen to our counsel.

This scene, it seems to me, was actually portrayed in the movie quite faithfully to the book.

Probably, at the time, the extent of the Ring's corrupting influence was not clearly understood. It was through knowledge of its effect on Isuldur, and later Sméagol, that Gandalf was able to understand its true nature.

The Only Real Estel · 07-27-2004, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Probably, at the time, the extent of the Ring's corrupting influence was not clearly understood. It was through knowledge of its effect on Isuldur, and later Sméagol, that Gandalf was able to understand its true nature.

I agree with that for the most part, but I can't say that the movie followed the books account faithfully. Granted, I don't mind the change, but I would assume that just because 'Orodruin's fire was nigh at hand' didn't actually mean that they were inside of Mount Doom. Not to mention that Cirdan wasn't in the movie (understandably). I think PJ could've avoided the main question that started this thread just by having a debate on the slopes of Mt. Doom, but I understand he did it for dramatic reasons.

Vanya · 07-27-2004, 02:48 PM

Well, that scene certanly made Isildur look like villain, and that was not so. He was victime of his ignorance (he couldn't have known the Ring's nature, and I belive he looked at it as a trophy, a reward, a compensation). He was great man and king, and this event was very unfortunate.
Isildur and Elrond were cousins, after all; it would be more than murder if Elrond slew Isildur.

07-22-2004, 09:07 PM	#1
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	My friends and I have often had a discussion on this topic. What we conclued was that war that would have resulted from Elrond killing Isildur. Not that I am saying he shouldn't of done it, but Elves and men would be at each others throats because Elrond killed the King of men and also wasn't Isilidur's son staying with Elrond (or was that later) so Rivendel would have been attacked. Elves and men would have killed eachother off so all that would be left would be drawves and hobbits. I am not sure that would be a good idea. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-26-2004, 03:58 AM	#2
Vanya Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Belgrade Posts: 43	I agree with few last posts; we mustn't mix movie and book. And, war would be inevitable if Elrond attacked Isildur. I think they were very close friends and alies, (and relatives) and even if Elrond did realised at that moment the consequences of Isildur's act, it is normal that he still hasitated. And I think that nobody really knew the nature of the Ring, in details that we know. Last edited by Vanya; 07-27-2004 at 02:39 PM.

07-26-2004, 08:14 AM	#3
Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Up a tree somewhere in Caras Galadhon...or England Posts: 364	I agree with Vanya...Indeed, I have always been confused over where that scene was derived from...And not having the books with me at the moment I can't even look it up. Just how much of the scene from the film was in the books? (And which books, because I don't remember it being anywhere in Lord of the Rings). __________________ '"Forweg can lead you no longer; for he is dead...I slew him...I will govern this fellowship now, or leave it." "As it was when he joined us, so it is again. He kills to make room."'

07-27-2004, 06:32 AM	#4
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	The movie scene wasn't too bad compared to the book. The only major difference was that the actual book event took place on the slopes of the mountain, as opposed to inside, right next to the fire. I think there were more people present than just Elrond and Isildur but the point still got across well. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

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07-27-2004, 02:48 PM	#7
Vanya Animated Skeleton Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Belgrade Posts: 43	Well, that scene certanly made Isildur look like villain, and that was not so. He was victime of his ignorance (he couldn't have known the Ring's nature, and I belive he looked at it as a trophy, a reward, a compensation). He was great man and king, and this event was very unfortunate. Isildur and Elrond were cousins, after all; it would be more than murder if Elrond slew Isildur.