Tolkien the Matricide - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nar · 04-25-2002, 08:59 PM

Amarinth, I don't think Tolkien used any archetype consciously. Common patterns like quests, dark lords, missing mothers usually do come into a story either because a particular pattern is useful to get a plot moving --technical reasons, you might say-- or because this pattern moves a writer, and perhaps his/her readers, which would be the usual definition of an archetype-- a pattern with great meaning to many readers. We could call the first type the 'for purposes of the plot' pattern until someone thinks up a better term. I don't think we can call it an archetype.

I think the motherlessness endemic in fairytales has to do with the feeling that a character with a mother around is psychologically safe, and therefore in no need of an adventure. Although Frodo's orphan state is in part a 'for purposes of the plot' device to place him as Bilbo's heir, I think the archetype also comes into play. For most of the other 'orphans,' I think Tolkien just wasn't interested in writing them mothers. However, in the case of Faramir and his mother 'a memory of beauty, and his first grief,' I think that Tolkien was applying his feelings for his own mother, as others have suggested.

[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

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04-25-2002, 08:59 PM	#21
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	Amarinth, I don't think Tolkien used any archetype consciously. Common patterns like quests, dark lords, missing mothers usually do come into a story either because a particular pattern is useful to get a plot moving --technical reasons, you might say-- or because this pattern moves a writer, and perhaps his/her readers, which would be the usual definition of an archetype-- a pattern with great meaning to many readers. We could call the first type the 'for purposes of the plot' pattern until someone thinks up a better term. I don't think we can call it an archetype. I think the motherlessness endemic in fairytales has to do with the feeling that a character with a mother around is psychologically safe, and therefore in no need of an adventure. Although Frodo's orphan state is in part a 'for purposes of the plot' device to place him as Bilbo's heir, I think the archetype also comes into play. For most of the other 'orphans,' I think Tolkien just wasn't interested in writing them mothers. However, in the case of Faramir and his mother 'a memory of beauty, and his first grief,' I think that Tolkien was applying his feelings for his own mother, as others have suggested. [ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]