Reclaiming a Throne

[Mithalwen]

Don't forget that various previous kings may well have been released from Mandos by that point .....it would have been hard to imagine Gil-Galad being held very long since he was born in Middle Earth wasn't he? And basically spent his entire life fighting Sauron and building links between the Edain and the Eldar.... We know that Finrod "walks with his father" ....... would not Fingolfin's valour have earned him also swift release?

[The Perky Ent]

True, but then there's the chance there never will be another king. For example, if Mandos decided, "Hey, that dude Finwe was really brave. He deserves to go back" then Finwe could become king and deny all of his heirs. I don't think that would be the case. And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession.

[Voralphion]

And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession

True they could have, but they didn't.
Anyway, by the time of the third age, a high king of the noldor probably wasn't necessary. The title of high king came about due to the fact that the noldor needed a united resistance against morgoth. After morgoth was overthrown Gil Galad remained so he kept his title. After the last alliance both Morgoth and sauron were overthrown and the elves had no real enemy (at that time anyway) so the position of high king was no longer needed in order to lead a united resistance.
The title of high king was only used in middle earth, and so anyone released from mandos would not be a contender for the position. Anyway, Finwe was never coming out so the only one who could claim leadership of the noldor was Fingolfin.

[Kuruharan]

it is just said that he ruled the remnant of the Noldor

Actually, that is a very good point, one I’d overlooked, at least so far as Finarfin never explicitly being referred to as king. However, this brings up the whole tangle of potential rulers that others have already alluded to.

True they could have, but they didn't.

Are you reasoning from some particular evidence, or simply from the fact that we don’t know about it happening?

Anyway, by the time of the third age, a high king of the noldor probably wasn't necessary. The title of high king came about due to the fact that the noldor needed a united resistance against morgoth. After morgoth was overthrown Gil Galad remained so he kept his title. After the last alliance both Morgoth and sauron were overthrown and the elves had no real enemy (at that time anyway) so the position of high king was no longer needed in order to lead a united resistance.

There are a few problems with this. The term “High King” was not explicitly used in Valinor because there was only one king of the Noldor, (or Vanyar, or Teleri). However, the position of king of the Noldor existed in Valinor before the rebellion and presumably after the exiles started returning. Ingwe (for instance) was not dethroned just because Morgoth and/or Sauron was overthrown. The position was one of great honor and stature. Obviously in Valinor there would be little need of a king for military purposes. The king was probably the symbolic head of the people. There is no reason to suppose the office was discontinued.

Anyway, Finwe was never coming out so the only one who could claim leadership of the noldor was Fingolfin.

I may have missed something somewhere, but I did not know that any extraordinary prohibition had been placed on Finwe.

[Fingolfin II]

I may have missed something somewhere, but I did not know that any extraordinary prohibition had been placed on Finwe.

I think that it is said in 'Laws and Customs of the Eldar' (Morgoth's Ring- HoME series) that Finwe could not leave Mandos, since Miriel has chosen to leave, and therefore if Finwe leaves then he would have two wives; something that is not allowed by the Eldar. Thus is he can't leave Mandos, he obviously can't rule the Noldor in Valinor.

[Kuruharan]

Ah, now that you mention it that does sound vaguely familiar.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

And Voralphion, if only male decendants can become king, explain the Kings and Queens of Numenor The elfs could have easily done what Tar-Aldarion did and change the rules of sucession. (Perky Ent)

Could a Noldor High-King have changed the laws of succession? Let's look at how Tar-Aldarion changed the Númenórean system.

His only child is a daughter. He loves his daughter, so he changes the laws. The people weren't upset. Ergo, the changed rules remain.

Would that same series of events happen to a Elven King? Not yet, so the High-Kingship still passes through male lines. Gil-galad didn't change it in favour of Elrond, despite the fact that he's heirless, and he's going into battle.

Now that I think of it, if Elves pass Ruler-ship through female lines, then Galadriel, cousin of Turgon, would be ruler after Gil-galad. Not Elrond.


About the original question, I found this tidbit in the King Elrond? thread.

It is possible that Elrond did not want the kingship, and any such title would have been purely nominal after the death of Gil-galad. It is also noted in The Problem of Ros in PoME that Elrond actually prefered to reckon his lineage to Thingol instead of Turgon. (Tar Elenion)

The title High-King of the Noldor would have been nominal after the Second Age. Eregion, the largest Noldorin region outside Lindon, is gone, along with almost all its population. The Noldor of Lindon continuously sail for Aman. Who's left to rule?

If you say "What about the other Elves?", well, they have their own rulers.