The Nazis & a Mytholgy for England

[Mithalwen]

I WAS trying to make a distinction between stuff he had written regarding Middle Earth ( and from even my superficial reading of HoME it seems to contain every last jotting on the back of an envelope.) and private writing.

I want to know everything there is about Middle Earth certainly, and he put Middle Earth into the public domain so I think it is reasonable that these be published or accessible ...( but when reading them I think it should be remembered that they are unfinished work at best and much is in draft or part- formed ideas)

HoweverI am not sure we have the right to know everything about the man. As with not knowing more of Olorin, than was revealed in Gandalf, I don't think we have the right to know to know more about him than he reveals in his work. So I think we don't have the right to have unlimited access to personal letters and diaries and the question of whether he was a great artist or a great storyteller is irrelevant. It has to stop somewhere.... would it be ok to see his medical records? Get his priest to break the seal of confession? Exhume him to see if he were genetically programmed to some mindview........ Biographical information can be a distraction from the work.... I don't think that venturing part of yourself into public life means you totally lose the right to any privacy, though given the success of the tabloid press in the UK I am clearly in a minority on this one.

Finally I don't think for a moment that it would end speculation - much more likely to feed it. After all if "published" essays such as Tree and Leaf are obscure enough to need explanation then how much more explanation are letters and diaries going to need? After all the only person who usually reads a diary knows exactly what the writer means!.... and generally such documents are less considered than more formal writings. Tolkien lived in the age of the letter which may have given permanent form to trivial thought and so disproportionate significance to those who would praise and blame them....... More information doesn't always resolve matters just raises more questions...

[davem]

To what extent is the story seperate from the storyteller? I think this is the question. If the mythology stands alone, as if it were history, then we would have no real requirement to know about the historian - though that might help us to understand if the historian was biased in any way, & whether he was being selective in the facts he gave us.

But if the mythology is the man in some sense, then an understanding of the man will give an insight into the mythology.

It brings us back to the question of whether the mythology was intended to impact on the primary world in any way. If it was, then Tolkien the man was attempting, through his mythology, to affect us & our world. So, we're back to the question of what Tolkien's intention was, whether it changed, & if it did, why?

Suppose he'd succeeded in his original intent, & our world had been impacted to some extent, wouldn't we have the right to know about the man who had done that?

Yet, if he did change in his intentions, a more interesting question - in the context of this thread - arises - how can it be that a mythology which began with that intent of 'moral regeneration' of the English, produced as its greatest manifestation a work (LotR) which had no purpose behind it than simple entertainment?

[Mithalwen]

I am aware I may have dragged this discussion somewhat off topic but one line of thinking leads to another ....... and I am aware that I may be getting out of my depth.....

don't think I can reply on the hoof withgout my brain exploding ....

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I am aware I may have dragged this discussion somewhat off topic but one line of thinking leads to another ....... and I am aware that I may be getting out of my depth.....

Don't worry, I do that all the time!