Grieg for Gimli, Schumann for Saruman - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fordim Hedgethistle · 08-20-2004, 03:13 PM

The "Lacrimosa" from Mozart's Requiem mass for the journey of Boromir's body to and then over the falls of Rauros.

Kransha · 08-21-2004, 08:15 AM

You people have good taste. As I've always been a bit of a classical afficionado, I'll just input my two sense, quite centsibly....or is that, my two cents, quite sensibly. Pity I can't provide any links. Just look 'em up, you'll find 'em. All of these are relatively well-known and widespread.

Molto Vivace, Symphony #9, Ludwig Von Beethoven
Very much Merry and Pippin for me. It's a bit minor, a bit major, and always switching if you notice. It's never sad, or too grand. Just right. Very jumpy, very spritely, somewhat comic at times, but with resonating seriousness and conscious undertones (does that make any sense whatsoever, hmm?).

Slavic March (March Slav), Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky
This is, of course semi-patriotic, but only in a very dreary way. For most of the piece, it is simply dreary, but two sections are quite the opposite. Contrary to being uplifting, though, the two sections are more happy in a way associated with conquest, resonating the Russian's penchant for remaining in the minor key. This seems ideal for many baddies. I would vote for the theme of Mordor, or at least it's orcs. It has the grand scale of Sauron's wroth with the steady, resilient, and forceful beat of an orcish march.

Egmont Overture, Ludwig Von Beethoven
Gondor, or just Denethor. Hard to say. It's not really creepy or evil enough to be Denethor, so I vote for Minas Tirith. It has all the triumphant, resounding chords of a grand city, set in with the eerie minor of Mordor's shadow. Some parts of it are either too eerie or too tranquil, but Beethoven was writing before Tolkien, so I'll cut him the adequate amount of slack. He was quite a composer, and this is one of my favorites of his (overtures at least). If the 5th Symphony weren't already a stereotype on it's own, I'd nominate that too.

Dies Irae, Requiem, Wolfganf Amadeus Mozart
Though this was cast as having the diabolicability of Saruman, I think it is far more apt for the Nazgul. If you listen to Howard Shore's composition for the Nazgul ('The Revelation of the Ringwraiths') the undertones of this are more than a little apparent. As one of the three most famous requiem/durges in history, this has a 'special' place in my heart as a long time favorite. Even though Mozart has better works (operatic and symphonic), this has all the passion of his last months of life, a kind of passion that most are unable to understand. Also, at this time, Mozart, according to conspiracy theories, was on death's door and pouring the last ounce of his being into this (I dunno, but it's a theory). Just the thing for corrupted kings, fallen from grace.

Overture, Water Music Suite, George Friedrich Handel
Maybe too grandiose, but this really feels like Rivendell to me. Maybe Elrond. It's very epic, very sweeping, very big, but not pockmarked by too much staccato. It's just long and soothing enough to be Elven, just the right mix. Also, the semi-baroque style seems fitting for the House of Elrond. Also, when I hear this, I think of Gondolin, but that's more from the Silmarillion.

Morning Mood, Peer Gynt Suite, Edvard Grieg
This is, almost certainly, a Shire piece. It's more than a little catered to it. It seems like a generic hobbit theme, but might be particular. If anything, it might be Sam's or Bilbo's music, at least at the beginning of The Fellowship. It is calm, homely, and reeks of gardening and happy birdsongs, so it seems rather apt for Samwise Gamgee. It's not boisterous enough for Merry, Pippin, or the Gaffer.

tar-ancalime · 08-21-2004, 08:31 AM

My husband and I both noticed that Howard Shore's Shire music sounds more than a little like the second movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony. Kransha, the Grieg you mention is in much the same vein. Sounds like you and Howard Shore are of the same mind.

But for my own suggestions:

Gorecki's Third Symphony for the Paths of the Dead.

Bach's Cello Suites in Rivendell.

"Dido's Lament" ("when I am laid in earth") from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas for Eowyn riding into battle.

This may seem like an odd choice, but the opening of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring for the Old Forest.

Thumbs up to this thread! I'm glad there are other classical music lovers here.

Mithalwen · 08-21-2004, 12:15 PM

I suppose being English, I have to fight the mental urge to mentally play the Elgar Cello Sonata with regard to the Shire and specifically Frodo's relationship to it .... it has a very Autumnal feel ..... it is a cliche but it is also still one of my desert island choices and the piece that tuned me in to classical music .....DuPre & Barbarolli .... od course...

I got this recording for my birthday and I love it ... how about " Winter " winter in Rivendell as the fellowship start out?

http://www.sonymusicstore.com/store/...6904-90916-chp

I fell in love with that bit of Beethoven when I saw the Peter Weir film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" one of those pieces I find so moving I find my self crying when I listen to it.........

Oh what good taste we have

...love Dido's Lament

Only trouble is I think I am doing this the wrong way round and trying to fing scenes for my favourite music rather than vice versa ..... How about Faure's In Paradisum for the grey havens.....

And for some reason I keep hearing Gandalf singing the bass arias from "Messiah" and the Commendatore fom Don Giovanni......

To side track .... no I'll start a new topic...

Encaitare · 08-21-2004, 09:40 PM

Pachelbel's Canon in D somehow reminds me of Nienna, the Valar's mourner. It's somewhat melancholy but very beautiful. Perhaps in relation to the Two Trees as well, as Nienna mourns them and then eventually they lead to the Sun and Moon's creation, explaining the uplifting final chord.

I'm also in love with Doppler's "Fantaisie Pastorale Hongroise" (sp?) and I think its pretty elfy. It's got sad parts, flighty glissando parts, and seems to capture their various aspects.

Sorry no links, my computer doesn't take well to media downloads. I am sure if you want to hear them badly enough you can find 'em!

Mithalwen · 08-22-2004, 11:56 AM

Oh I think the Canon is lovely but Nienna is such an isolated figure that I tend to think of solo pieces for her .... but then in the context you give it is one of her rare visits to valinor and she is "working" in cooperation with Yavanna.... so it works...

How about "ombre mai fu " from Serse, for the party tree replacing mallorn? ..... the tune is better known as "Handel's Largo" but very roughly translated from italian, the words are " Never was the shade of any tree so dear, beloved, and sweet"

Lalwendë · 08-23-2004, 01:23 PM

How about Saint-Saens and Danse Macabre for Gollum?

I hope these links are working by the way, it's getting me all irate...I'm so rubbish at things like that.

08-20-2004, 03:13 PM	#1
Fordim Hedgethistle Gibbering Gibbet Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Beyond cloud nine Posts: 1,844	The "Lacrimosa" from Mozart's Requiem mass for the journey of Boromir's body to and then over the falls of Rauros. __________________ Scribbling scrabbling.

08-21-2004, 08:15 AM	#2
Kransha Ubiquitous Urulóki Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The port of Mars, where Famine, Sword, and Fire, leash'd in like hounds, crouch for employment Posts: 747	You people have good taste. As I've always been a bit of a classical afficionado, I'll just input my two sense, quite centsibly....or is that, my two cents, quite sensibly. Pity I can't provide any links. Just look 'em up, you'll find 'em. All of these are relatively well-known and widespread. Molto Vivace, Symphony #9, Ludwig Von Beethoven Very much Merry and Pippin for me. It's a bit minor, a bit major, and always switching if you notice. It's never sad, or too grand. Just right. Very jumpy, very spritely, somewhat comic at times, but with resonating seriousness and conscious undertones (does that make any sense whatsoever, hmm?). Slavic March (March Slav), Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky This is, of course semi-patriotic, but only in a very dreary way. For most of the piece, it is simply dreary, but two sections are quite the opposite. Contrary to being uplifting, though, the two sections are more happy in a way associated with conquest, resonating the Russian's penchant for remaining in the minor key. This seems ideal for many baddies. I would vote for the theme of Mordor, or at least it's orcs. It has the grand scale of Sauron's wroth with the steady, resilient, and forceful beat of an orcish march. Egmont Overture, Ludwig Von Beethoven Gondor, or just Denethor. Hard to say. It's not really creepy or evil enough to be Denethor, so I vote for Minas Tirith. It has all the triumphant, resounding chords of a grand city, set in with the eerie minor of Mordor's shadow. Some parts of it are either too eerie or too tranquil, but Beethoven was writing before Tolkien, so I'll cut him the adequate amount of slack. He was quite a composer, and this is one of my favorites of his (overtures at least). If the 5th Symphony weren't already a stereotype on it's own, I'd nominate that too. Dies Irae, Requiem, Wolfganf Amadeus Mozart Though this was cast as having the diabolicability of Saruman, I think it is far more apt for the Nazgul. If you listen to Howard Shore's composition for the Nazgul ('The Revelation of the Ringwraiths') the undertones of this are more than a little apparent. As one of the three most famous requiem/durges in history, this has a 'special' place in my heart as a long time favorite. Even though Mozart has better works (operatic and symphonic), this has all the passion of his last months of life, a kind of passion that most are unable to understand. Also, at this time, Mozart, according to conspiracy theories, was on death's door and pouring the last ounce of his being into this (I dunno, but it's a theory). Just the thing for corrupted kings, fallen from grace. Overture, Water Music Suite, George Friedrich Handel Maybe too grandiose, but this really feels like Rivendell to me. Maybe Elrond. It's very epic, very sweeping, very big, but not pockmarked by too much staccato. It's just long and soothing enough to be Elven, just the right mix. Also, the semi-baroque style seems fitting for the House of Elrond. Also, when I hear this, I think of Gondolin, but that's more from the Silmarillion. Morning Mood, Peer Gynt Suite, Edvard Grieg This is, almost certainly, a Shire piece. It's more than a little catered to it. It seems like a generic hobbit theme, but might be particular. If anything, it might be Sam's or Bilbo's music, at least at the beginning of The Fellowship. It is calm, homely, and reeks of gardening and happy birdsongs, so it seems rather apt for Samwise Gamgee. It's not boisterous enough for Merry, Pippin, or the Gaffer. __________________ "What mortal feels not awe/Nor trembles at our name, Hearing our fate-appointed power sublime/Fixed by the eternal law. For old our office, and our fame," -Aeschylus, Song of the Furies

08-21-2004, 08:31 AM	#3
tar-ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: abaft the beam Posts: 303	My husband and I both noticed that Howard Shore's Shire music sounds more than a little like the second movement of Dvorak's 9th symphony. Kransha, the Grieg you mention is in much the same vein. Sounds like you and Howard Shore are of the same mind. But for my own suggestions: Gorecki's Third Symphony for the Paths of the Dead. Bach's Cello Suites in Rivendell. "Dido's Lament" ("when I am laid in earth") from Purcell's Dido and Aeneas for Eowyn riding into battle. This may seem like an odd choice, but the opening of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring for the Old Forest. Thumbs up to this thread! I'm glad there are other classical music lovers here. __________________ Having fun wolfing it to the bitter end, I see, gaur-ancalime (lmp, ww13)

08-21-2004, 12:15 PM	#4
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	I suppose being English, I have to fight the mental urge to mentally play the Elgar Cello Sonata with regard to the Shire and specifically Frodo's relationship to it .... it has a very Autumnal feel ..... it is a cliche but it is also still one of my desert island choices and the piece that tuned me in to classical music .....DuPre & Barbarolli .... od course... I got this recording for my birthday and I love it ... how about " Winter " winter in Rivendell as the fellowship start out? http://www.sonymusicstore.com/store/...6904-90916-chp I fell in love with that bit of Beethoven when I saw the Peter Weir film "Picnic at Hanging Rock" one of those pieces I find so moving I find my self crying when I listen to it......... Oh what good taste we have ...love Dido's Lament Only trouble is I think I am doing this the wrong way round and trying to fing scenes for my favourite music rather than vice versa ..... How about Faure's In Paradisum for the grey havens..... And for some reason I keep hearing Gandalf singing the bass arias from "Messiah" and the Commendatore fom Don Giovanni...... To side track .... no I'll start a new topic... __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-22-2004, 11:56 AM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,461	Oh I think the Canon is lovely but Nienna is such an isolated figure that I tend to think of solo pieces for her .... but then in the context you give it is one of her rare visits to valinor and she is "working" in cooperation with Yavanna.... so it works... How about "ombre mai fu " from Serse, for the party tree replacing mallorn? ..... the tune is better known as "Handel's Largo" but very roughly translated from italian, the words are " Never was the shade of any tree so dear, beloved, and sweet" __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

08-21-2004, 09:40 PM	#5
Encaitare Bittersweet Symphony Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise Posts: 1,814	Pachelbel's Canon in D somehow reminds me of Nienna, the Valar's mourner. It's somewhat melancholy but very beautiful. Perhaps in relation to the Two Trees as well, as Nienna mourns them and then eventually they lead to the Sun and Moon's creation, explaining the uplifting final chord. I'm also in love with Doppler's "Fantaisie Pastorale Hongroise" (sp?) and I think its pretty elfy. It's got sad parts, flighty glissando parts, and seems to capture their various aspects. Sorry no links, my computer doesn't take well to media downloads. I am sure if you want to hear them badly enough you can find 'em!

08-23-2004, 01:23 PM	#7
Lalwendë A Mere Boggart Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under the bed Posts: 4,737	How about Saint-Saens and Danse Macabre for Gollum? I hope these links are working by the way, it's getting me all irate...I'm so rubbish at things like that.

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