LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 10 - Strider

[Mark]

We have to take into consideration the fact that hobbits are not a weak creature. We have Frodo here, willing to take the ring to its doom, his faithful friend (servant) Sam... who would die for Frodo's sake, if he could. And, the two friends that joined them, braver than most I should say.

Merry does know too much, and he is a little sneak, along with his friends. He grew to know that the ring had power, power above all... and that it was also evil. But if you notice, niether Merry or Pippin attempted to take the ring from Frodo, showing the "soft" side that hobbits have.

Anyways, back to buisness... you ask why Merry chased the Wraiths, or why he sneaked on them? In my opinion... I think thats what any of the other hobbits have done... they knew a dear friend (Frodo) was in danger from the 9, and that they could kill him. Sam probably would have done double the work of Merry... and gotten himself killed at that also.

We know that hobbits are small, we know they like songs, they live in holes... they ignore outer life and live in there own bubble of peace. But, (as we will see when we get on with the book) that hobbits are NOT such a gentle creature when angered. Merry must have felt a great anger towards the 9, and took matters into his own hands. It may even be so that he went outside for that matter.

The 4 hobbits act like a family, if one is hurt, they do not leave without them. As we have seen in the Great Forest, when Merry and Pippin were eaten by a big tree... wouldnt you have run for your own life instead of awaiting the tree which acts on its own behalf? I would, but the hobbits, they tried to get the two outside of the tree, and onto solid ground.... then, when all else fails, they called unto the help of Tom.

To answer your question davem, basically, hobbits are not what we know them as. They are a very complex creature that could perform tasks no grown human man could do.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mark

Anyways, back to buisness... you ask why Merry chased the Wraiths, or why he sneaked on them? In my opinion... I think thats what any of the other hobbits have done... they knew a dear friend (Frodo) was in danger from the 9, and that they could kill him. Sam probably would have done double the work of Merry... and gotten himself killed at that also.

Well, that's as may be, but I still think he's hiding something! Those Bucklanders are queer, living on the wrong side of the Brandywine, too close to the old forest. That Mr Merry knows more'n is good for a hobbit.

(Oh, & welcome to the Down's )

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Originally Posted by The Perky Ent
Several things in the letter intrigued me. First off, how Gandalf knew Frodo used It. If it's explained in the book, I apologize for my ignorance, but does Gandalf have the ability to sense it, in one way or another?

I like to think that Gandalf was referring to Bilbo’s use of the ring while in the Shire, when he uses the term ‘again’.

The Enemy has set traps for me before now. As soon as I had made up my mind, I was ready to tell you whatever you asked. But I must admit,' he added with a queer laugh, 'that I hoped you would take to me for my own sake. A hunted man sometimes wearies of distrust & longs for friendship.

I agree with davem that it is altogether too easy to forget the troubles that Aragorn had been facing prior to this point, especially later in the story. But this I believe is directly a result of his commanding presence. Like many I have seen in real life, he seems so ‘in control’, one assumes that all aspects of his life are also in order.

I agree with with Helen that Aragorn generally has a valid reason for being abupt. I was tempted to think in this current instance with Butterburr, that the innkeeper actually slammed rangers first, provoking a negative reaction. But Helen’s remark about Aragorn knowing that he was Frodo’s best hope, seems much more in keeping with the character.

Lalwendë, I think that your comment about the poem being applicable to Gandalf is a interesting observation.

And yes, one certainally can make out a connection between Merry and the wraiths. One that I hadn't been aware of until reading through the story again with the benefit of these threads!


One point that I would like to mention is how Aragorn at times speaks of Strider as though he is a different individual.

“Well,” said Strider, “with Sam’s permission we will call it settled. Strider will be your guide."

It is as if Aragorn is reaching into his closet and is picking out which hat to wear. And since he has been known by quite a few names, I wonder if he acted similarly when he was known as Thorongil. Like Gandalf, these names seem to be given him, rather than being chosen by him to mark a change, (as Turin seemed fond of doing). Is this to imply that he is always the same, though different people view him one way or another? Golden always, but at times well worn and at others polished.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by davem

Well, that's as may be, but I still think he's hiding something! Those Bucklanders are queer, living on the wrong side of the Brandywine, too close to the old forest. That Mr Merry knows more'n is good for a hobbit.

Yes, we know the Bucklanders are a strange and queer kind, as you put it, but you have to understand something. Hobbits appear to be a simple creature, pure at that too, not all hobbits are! Gollum was once considered a hobbit-like creature, but he's a different case.

Even though it appears like Merry has turned too nosey, or is beginning to dig himself into deep trouble, it is not so. For Merry would break his almost childlike look and humerous attitude if he had done so. Merry was probably not just going for a walk, and I dont think anyone who knows that wraiths are circling the town would walk outside. Merry wanted to see them, to get some hints, something that would help Frodo and the others, but, he was not doing anything against his heart... he was doing it out of love for his friend, who has the bigger burden.

Originally Posted by davem

(Oh, & welcome to the Down's )

Thanks!

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mark

Even though it appears like Merry has turned too nosey, or is beginning to dig himself into deep trouble, it is not so.

That's as may be, but all that book-learnin' can't be good for a body, an' I don't see that no good ever come of it. I don't see what cause respectable Shire-folk would have to go chasin black men through the streets at night when they should be tucked up at home in bed, like civilised folk.

[Mithalwen]

Just shows that upper class eccentricity can sometimes mask real courage and talent...... in a later age Merry would have been one of those really unlikely people who were actually completely vital to SOE and Bletchley Park......

[Encaitare]

Wecome to the Downs, Mark!

About Merry-- perhaps the fact that he is associated with the Riders is almost a form of foreshadowing towards his "destiny," if you will, to aid in the slaying of the Witch-King (not to get ahead of the discussion again, but it just had to be said.)

(Originally posted by Hilde Bracegirdle)
It is as if Aragorn is reaching into his closet and is picking out which hat to wear. And since he has been known by quite a few names, I wonder if he acted similarly when he was known as Thorongil. Like Gandalf, these names seem to be given him, rather than being chosen by him to mark a change, (as Turin seemed fond of doing). Is this to imply that he is always the same, though different people view him one way or another? Golden always, but at times well worn and at others polished.

Makes sense to me. Aragorn's character never really changes all that much; he is always the good, noble man with many facets:

1. the suspicious, mysterious but eventually kindly Strider who "looks foul and feels fair"

2. the wise advisor Thorongil who comes and goes only as he is needed (much, indeed, like Gandalf)

3. Estel, which could possibly be argued to be his more compassionate side, as it does mean "Hope." It could even symbolize Aragorn's innocence, and how this innocence was lost when his real name was revealed to him.

4. the strong leader Aragorn who is a rallying point on the battlefield and a good, trustworthy friend

5. the just King Elessar Telcontar (and with the Telcontar bit he ties it all back to his humble history) who restores peace to Middle-earth

[Mark]

Originally Posted by davem

That's as may be, but all that book-learnin' can't be good for a body, an' I don't see that no good ever come of it. I don't see what cause respectable Shire-folk would have to go chasin black men through the streets at night when they should be tucked up at home in bed, like civilised folk.

Who said hobbits were civilized?
Hobbits are nothing near civilized, the whole race is considered strange. You could never estimate what they would do. Thats for the general population, now, for the 4 hobbits. Well, lets look at it this way:

Frodo: Inherited the ring from Biblo, which Bilbo stole from Gollum. Biblo was beginning to become crazy, the ring had taken a hold on him and he broke that hold, for good or for bad. Frodo, the peaceful Frodo that is only a youth in hobbittown times, inherits the ring that rules them all. Frodo can feel power at his hands, the whole timeframe of middle earth depends on this one ring, this small golden thing hung around his neck.... and he was sent to distroy it. At this time in the book, we can expect that Frodo might take the ring for himself, afterall, he is just a kid. Frodo, sent on an emmence task with his faithful servant only to learn that he was stuck to go with 2 more. We could go on with Frodo, but to finish his part, lets just say.... he's not what hobbits call "sane".

Sam: Sam the friendly gardener, Sam, the one who spied on his best friend, his buddy. Sam, that little boy, the small and weak one, listening and mendling with the affairs of wizards. Sam, the crazy one, actually wanting to go to mount doom. Sam too, does not fit the discription of a normal hobbit.

Pippin & Merry: Pippin, oh Pippin. Not much is said about Pippin i'm afraid, but we can tell that he has a good sense of humor, along with his best friend Merry. The two convinced Sam to turn "against" Frodo, to spy and collect as much information.
Pippin and Merry, the two stubborn friends that stick to Frodo like melted cheese (Yum!). We can tell that Merry had not alot of fear, having the courage to stand up to the wraiths. Pippin, having the courage to walk fearless into the Great Forest, along with Merry, and the others. From what we know, hobbits like to stick to the places they live in. These two, also do not fit the discription.

As we can see, this group of hobbits are nothing near "civilized", so, we cannot expect them to act as such. Each one of these hobbits has there own advantages and disadvantages, and we know that Merry went out for the "walk" on other buisness. He was trying to get something, something to help the 4 hobbits, we can tell that they were not in any good situation, Merry attempted to take them off gaurd, or get any kind of clue. Perhaps he was looking to find a weakness, something that could end the shrieks and the shivers.

[Lalwendë]

Hello and welcome Mark - interesting thoughts you've posted!

I wouldn't say hobbits were uncivilised, but this could start a whole new topic (I have a vague theory about hobbits) so I'll leave it there. But, Bilbo, Frodo, Merry, Pippin and Sam are by no means 'ordinary' hobbits.

Why did Merry go out to 'take the air'? I like to think it was simple curiosity, that he was a very nosy hobbit. I would suspect that hobbits are a nosy race in general, living in villages close to one another, and coupled with the alleged daring spirit that comes with having Brandybuck blood, Merry's behaviour does not surprise me.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Interesting thoughts on Merry, and I'm enjoying davem's humorous hobbitish take on the issue! I looked back at the last chapter, where he decides not to join them in the common room, to see if there's a clue to his reason. I read:

Merry said it would be too stuffy.

Now that sounds just like a reason I'd have for going out to walk instead of joining a bunch of strangers in a smoky barroom! He must have been used to a life in the fresh air and just might have needed some oxygen. He didn't necessarily intend to go outside at first, saying:

I shall sit here quietly by the fire for a bit, and perhaps go out later for a sniff of the air.

As a matter of fact, when he came back he said that he'd stayed indoors for an hour, going out only after realizing that his friends were't coming back to the room soon. That sounds more like a contemplative personality, needing a little time to himself after being surrounded by his (talkative?) friends all day. Someone who can think and plan as he has shown himself able to needs time to settle and organise his thoughts.

What does make me pause to think is when he says that he was "drawn" to follow the Wraith. We've only heard of the terror they inspire - what could have drawn him to them? The terror came later.

[Encaitare]

Despite the fact that Frodo was a bit unusual, being a Baggins, I would not go so far to say that hobbits were uncivilized. They certainly did not consider themselves strange! Frodo was settling in to becoming quite a "normal" hobbit when all of a sudden he was called to go on his quest.

Sam does seem to be more of an exception to what makes a "normal" hobbit in that he loves tales of Elves and far-away places. And Merry and Pippin, being a Brandybuck and a Took, are rather adventurous.

Anyway, I think what davem meant was that the average Hobbiton resident would have looked down upon these particular individuals' tendency to have dealings/interests with the "outside world" and their adventures -- until, that is, they became heroes and saved their country.