LotR -- Book 1 - Chapter 12 - Flight to the Ford

[Guinevere]

@ Encaitare: you tried to explain why Frodo's sword did no harm to the Nazgûl, whereas Merry could injure the witchking. I think that Frodo simply missed the wraith and only struck its coat. If he had struck him, his blade would have shrivelled and perished like Merry's did, for "all blades perish, that pierce that dreadful King" as Aragorn says.

There is hardly anything I can write, after those deep discussions!
I agree with Child of the 7th age that there is more to Frodo than explained in the psychological analysis by Karyn Milos. (There was a discussion about that in Child's excellent thread "Frodo's sacrifice" about 2 years ago.) But this really belongs more to the end of the books.

Overall I get the impression of how long and cumbersome the way to Rivendell is and how painfully slow the progress of the fellowship , although time is pressing. Very realistic really. (In the movie, Middle-earth somehow seems much smaller...) Also it strikes me that Frodo's condition deteriorates only slowly, with intermittent recoveries. When they meet up with Bilbo's trolls he can even laugh. I was glad for thas respite! And again Sam shows us another unexpected side.
Even at the confrontation with the Nazgûl at the ford, Frodo has still enough pluck to face them and refuse their summons. (I understand that they had to rush the scenes in the movie, and even their omission of Glorfindel, but I can't forgive them the weak portrayal of Frodo! )
At my first reading I remember how thrilled I was at Glorfindel's appearance and how intrigued by the untranslated Elvish words!
The green "elf-stone" that he left on the bridge must have been the same kind of jewel as the Elessar then ?
I wonder if Frodo had heard about Luthien before, or did Strider's telling of that story leave such a deep impression that he called not only on Elbereth but on Luthien.

[Firefoot]

The green "elf-stone" that he left on the bridge must have been the same kind of jewel as the Elessar then ?

I wondered about this as well, and I am pretty sure that they are of the same type. I can see why even if they weren't the same Aragorn still might take it as a sign, being Elvish and all, but I think it probably had special significance to Aragorn because it was foretold that he would take the name of Elessar. Perhaps this was why he was able to take it for a sign that he was able to cross the bridge, and not just dropped by pure chance: because it was a green elf-stone.

I wonder if Frodo had heard about Luthien before, or did Strider's telling of that story leave such a deep impression that he called not only on Elbereth but on Luthien.

It is possible that he had heard of Luthien before from Bilbo, but I think it is more likely that the reason he used Luthien's name was because of Strider's story. Bilbo may have heard of her from the Elves and maybe even knew a good bit of her story, but he did not have the resources in the Shire that he did at Rivendell. Strider probably knew more and was perhaps better able to tell the story because he was raised in Rivendell, and it was his family history as well. Another interesting thing I wonder about is why he used Luthien's name at the ford but not when he was attacked on Weathertop. If it had been because of Aragorn's story, I would think that it would have been more fresh in his mind. On the other hand, maybe it hadn't quite sunken in yet, and being that Frodo was riding Bill and not walking, maybe he had more time to think about it, and it seemed fitting at the ford.

[Encaitare]

Guinevere-- Yes, you're probably right, although I find it a little odd that he would "miss" the Witch-King... but then again, I have a habit of trying to make something out of nothing.

[davem]

Its interesting how Tolkien makes use of folkore - the Beryl in medieval times was considered to have magical powers - to bring health, good luck & long life, & being green, the colour associated with both Elves & nature its a perfect choice.

Also, the Athelas verse is similar to verses found in Anglo saxon & medieval times. A healing herb would not just be used as we use medicine today, there would be a prayer or invocation said over it as it was cut & as it was used.

There's an Anglo-saxon verse - the Nine Herbs charm, which contains the lines:

This herb is called Stune; it grew on a stone,
it withstands poison, it resists pain.
It is called harsh, it fights against poison,
drives out the hostile one, casts out poison.
This is the herb that fought with the worm;
this power against poison, this power against infection,
this power against the foe who fares through the land.

trans: Rodrigues 'Anglo-Saxon Verse Charms, Maxims, & Heroic Legends.

Its interesting to see how Tolkien was using ancient beliefs subtly, & adapting them for his mythology.