Shadow Host vs. Sauron & Co.? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**The Saucepan Man** · 10-04-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

There's this Latin phrase (please bear with my spelling) Deus ex machina, It stands for "god of machines." Basically, it's a term used in movie directing, when the director can't figure out how to solve a plot, so he pulls these supernatural beings that come in and kill everyone, sort of a sloppy way of putting it together.

Hmm, I wonder whether Tolkien himself ever used Deus ex Machina.

Boromir88 · 10-08-2004, 06:40 PM

Thanks for the link SpM, I think it's all about how you look at the phrase. If you look at it literally it means "god of machines," some sort of supernatural, creature from god/godlike being. And is used to solve a plot. Or some will look at it as just a "miracle."

If you look at it as a "miracle" then the best example might be Gollum destroying the ring. He happens to just slip and fall. In that few minutes when Frodo decided to claim the ring, all seemed to be lost, then just all of a sudden Gollum, in all his joy, slips and falls into Mount Doom.

If you look at it literally, I might need to do some searching, but I would think Tolkien would use this. Being a man who wrote on religion, I would think it's possible he would use it. Question is, is the Army of the Dead considered a "deus ex machina," a supernatural being from god? I wouldn't say so, they were cursed men, it wasn't like some "unstoppable" spirit like thing, they were once men, cursed. I wouldn't say they were from god.

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10-08-2004, 06:40 PM	#2
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Thanks for the link SpM, I think it's all about how you look at the phrase. If you look at it literally it means "god of machines," some sort of supernatural, creature from god/godlike being. And is used to solve a plot. Or some will look at it as just a "miracle." If you look at it as a "miracle" then the best example might be Gollum destroying the ring. He happens to just slip and fall. In that few minutes when Frodo decided to claim the ring, all seemed to be lost, then just all of a sudden Gollum, in all his joy, slips and falls into Mount Doom. If you look at it literally, I might need to do some searching, but I would think Tolkien would use this. Being a man who wrote on religion, I would think it's possible he would use it. Question is, is the Army of the Dead considered a "deus ex machina," a supernatural being from god? I wouldn't say so, they were cursed men, it wasn't like some "unstoppable" spirit like thing, they were once men, cursed. I wouldn't say they were from god.