Saruman's ending (PJ's way) P.S. Spoilers! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

gorthaur_cruel · 10-22-2004, 12:43 AM

Quote:

What's worse is the way it happens. The arrow 'soars high above Grima's head' & then as Grima is 'laughing at the seeming inaccuracy of Legolas', it crashes down through his skull. If it becomes a death that people will laugh at when they see it, I think PJ will have failed miserably.

Really? Where'd you hear that? I sure haven't heard that before...
BTW, how can you shoot an arrow all the way up to the top of Orthanc, which is presumably around 300m high? Unless Elves have EXTREME power as well as accuracy, surely it won't reach that high before coming back down.

...which reminds me. Anybody have the faintest idea why they made Saruman talk from the top of Orthanc as opposed to his balcony (as in the book)? I fail to see how his almost-whispers such as "You are all going to die" from the EE is supposed to be heard all the way down. Even his shouts shouldn't be heard easily.

Eomer of the Rohirrim · 10-22-2004, 05:46 AM

This discussion came up on a previous thread but I can't for the life of me find it anywhere. I remember arguing that the potential for Grima's death in the film was quite frightening. To have Legolas (or Aragorn, Theoden, Eowyn or Eomer) kill Grima would be utterly horrible. The reason it was important for an anonymous Hobbit archer to kill Grima was so as not to put another spin on events. The life and death of Grima was tragic in itself.

Picture the scene in the movies where Legolas, say, kills Grima, and all the people in the cinema cheer and holler. That would encourage the audience to completely miss and ignore the point of Grima's pitiful end. This is not some nameless Orc for one of the good guys to slice open. Rather this is an important representation of a hopeless and pathetic man. This death is a genuinely melancholy one, and needs the proper treatment which Tolkien gave it.

I see no reason why the different setting should change things dramatically, though. It should stay pretty much the same way as it was in the book. Have Grima kill Saruman, attempt an escape and then be picked off by the soldiers of Rohan.

Boromir88 · 10-22-2004, 06:18 AM

I agree with Estel and Eomer, I would have to say Legolas killing Grima, only makes it seem as Eomer puts it....

Quote:

some nameless Orc for one of the good guys to slice open.

There is much more to Grima then that. I originally thought a good way of Grima ending his life (besides random hobbit archers shooting at him) would be Grima killing himself. But I like Eomer's idea, of Grima's attempt to escape, and then instead of the hobbits (since they don't have bows) having random Rohan soldiers shoot him down, that's I feel is the best way of ending Grima, besides the way in the book.

P.S. Maybe I should change the thread name to "Grima's end" since it appears we all can agree Saruman's ending will be fine if Grima kills him. lol.

Elianna · 10-22-2004, 07:20 AM

I have probably the most reliable source (pre-movie) of Legolas killing Grima: The LotR Trivia Pursuit game. One of the questions is "Who kills Grime Wormtongue?" Answer: "Legolas" Can't get much more straightforward than that.

Not a spoiler:

I do really hate the idea of Legolas killing Wormie. We concern is if they were going to have mercy on Saruman, then how can they not have mercy on Grima, merely his pupil?

Essex · 10-22-2004, 10:45 AM

Hang on, we're not taking into account PJ's penchant for changing things here. We seem to think grima will get shot because he tries to escape. Do you really think PJ would have Legolas shoot him in the back? I think not. What might happen is that Grima either gets shot:

1/ whilst attempting (and succeding) to kill Saruman.
2/ whilst attacking another member of the fellowship.

for number 1, legolas might be tring to save saruman's life.

for number 2, we could have Legolas see Grima flinging the palantir down towards the fellowship and tries to stop him by shooting him.

We will see whether I'm right or totally wrong in less than 2 months...........

sallkid · 08-05-2007, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorthaur_cruel

Really? Where'd you hear that? I sure haven't heard that before...
BTW, how can you shoot an arrow all the way up to the top of Orthanc, which is presumably around 300m high? Unless Elves have EXTREME power as well as accuracy, surely it won't reach that high before coming back down.

Just read this post and it reminded me of this old chestnut...

That's why Legolas can fire an arrow to the top of orthanc, single handedly kill a mumak and outdrink a dwarf (the drinking annoyed me the most, i prefer my elves with delicate constitutions)

As for the death of Grima, it just didn't occur to me until now that it shouldn't have been legolas who killed him, now it has and it's gnawing at me.

TheGreatElvenWarrior · 08-05-2007, 06:09 PM

Did I help?

10-22-2004, 05:46 AM	#2
Eomer of the Rohirrim Auspicious Wraith Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 4,859	This discussion came up on a previous thread but I can't for the life of me find it anywhere. I remember arguing that the potential for Grima's death in the film was quite frightening. To have Legolas (or Aragorn, Theoden, Eowyn or Eomer) kill Grima would be utterly horrible. The reason it was important for an anonymous Hobbit archer to kill Grima was so as not to put another spin on events. The life and death of Grima was tragic in itself. Picture the scene in the movies where Legolas, say, kills Grima, and all the people in the cinema cheer and holler. That would encourage the audience to completely miss and ignore the point of Grima's pitiful end. This is not some nameless Orc for one of the good guys to slice open. Rather this is an important representation of a hopeless and pathetic man. This death is a genuinely melancholy one, and needs the proper treatment which Tolkien gave it. I see no reason why the different setting should change things dramatically, though. It should stay pretty much the same way as it was in the book. Have Grima kill Saruman, attempt an escape and then be picked off by the soldiers of Rohan. __________________ Los Ingobernables de Harlond

10-22-2004, 07:20 AM	#4
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Magno Spoiler Warning!!!!!! I have probably the most reliable source (pre-movie) of Legolas killing Grima: The LotR Trivia Pursuit game. One of the questions is "Who kills Grime Wormtongue?" Answer: "Legolas" Can't get much more straightforward than that. Not a spoiler: I do really hate the idea of Legolas killing Wormie. We concern is if they were going to have mercy on Saruman, then how can they not have mercy on Grima, merely his pupil? __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya. Last edited by Elianna; 10-22-2004 at 07:23 AM. Reason: spoiler!

08-05-2007, 06:09 PM	#7
TheGreatElvenWarrior Mighty Quill Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Walking off to look for America Posts: 2,230	Did I help? __________________ The Party Doesn't Start Until You're Dead.

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10-22-2004, 10:45 AM	#5
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Hang on, we're not taking into account PJ's penchant for changing things here. We seem to think grima will get shot because he tries to escape. Do you really think PJ would have Legolas shoot him in the back? I think not. What might happen is that Grima either gets shot: 1/ whilst attempting (and succeding) to kill Saruman. 2/ whilst attacking another member of the fellowship. for number 1, legolas might be tring to save saruman's life. for number 2, we could have Legolas see Grima flinging the palantir down towards the fellowship and tries to stop him by shooting him. We will see whether I'm right or totally wrong in less than 2 months...........