Hope for Undomiel. - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

03-31-2003, 12:22 AM

Wonderful discussion. To respond to secretfire's original thought, Hope for Undomiel, I think there is indeed hope for her, but not the hope of going to the undying lands. Her hope is that of the possibility of an eternal life, shared with Aragorn, that is not yet known by men or elves. To me, this is part of the doom of the Followers: yes they experience death, but they have an unknown fate for eternity. The doom of the Firstborn is undying life (shown to be a mixed blessing in Tolkien's writings) and a known eternity in Eressea after passing over.

It's been pointed out that Arwen made her choice of destiny when she chose Aragorn. In doing so she chose to share his fate. To me, when she speaks about "no ship that would take me there" she means not "no physical ship could be found" -- indeed Legolas and Gimli had not passed over, nor had Cirdan, to my knowledge -- but rather "given my love for you and the choice that I made, there is no ship that could take me." Kind of an extremely elegant and subtle way of saying, "Wild horses couldn't drag me to Eressea." More a comment to Aragorn on her emotional and psychological state, a reaffirming of the choice.

Why and of what cause does she die? I have struggled with this as well. Why not stay in Minas Tirith, enjoy her children and eventual grandchildren and her friends for a few more decades? Or at least, staying there to be buried along side Aragorn? At the end, it's her choice, deliberately saying farewell and choosing to return to and be buried in the place of perhaps her greatest happiness - on the hill in Lothlorien where she and Aragorn had plighted their troth.

Think about it...the knowledge that eventually this day would come, that she and her father would never see each other again after he passed over, because they had differnt fates, made their parting so sad.

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03-31-2003, 12:22 AM	#18
celebrial Guest Posts: n/a	Wonderful discussion. To respond to secretfire's original thought, Hope for Undomiel, I think there is indeed hope for her, but not the hope of going to the undying lands. Her hope is that of the possibility of an eternal life, shared with Aragorn, that is not yet known by men or elves. To me, this is part of the doom of the Followers: yes they experience death, but they have an unknown fate for eternity. The doom of the Firstborn is undying life (shown to be a mixed blessing in Tolkien's writings) and a known eternity in Eressea after passing over. It's been pointed out that Arwen made her choice of destiny when she chose Aragorn. In doing so she chose to share his fate. To me, when she speaks about "no ship that would take me there" she means not "no physical ship could be found" -- indeed Legolas and Gimli had not passed over, nor had Cirdan, to my knowledge -- but rather "given my love for you and the choice that I made, there is no ship that could take me." Kind of an extremely elegant and subtle way of saying, "Wild horses couldn't drag me to Eressea." More a comment to Aragorn on her emotional and psychological state, a reaffirming of the choice. Why and of what cause does she die? I have struggled with this as well. Why not stay in Minas Tirith, enjoy her children and eventual grandchildren and her friends for a few more decades? Or at least, staying there to be buried along side Aragorn? At the end, it's her choice, deliberately saying farewell and choosing to return to and be buried in the place of perhaps her greatest happiness - on the hill in Lothlorien where she and Aragorn had plighted their troth. Think about it...the knowledge that eventually this day would come, that she and her father would never see each other again after he passed over, because they had differnt fates, made their parting so sad.