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Old 11-22-2004, 10:18 AM   #1
Bęthberry
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Thank you again for another well-wrought intro to the discussion, Estelyn. I do indeed have other things to say about the chapter, but for now let me get Boromir out of the way.

This chapter provides the one of the remaining pieces of evidence in my point that, in Boromir, Tolkien was depicting his concept of the Northern Heroic Warrior. (See Tolkien's "The Homecoming of Beorhtnoth" for his ideas about noble errors and heroes dying for their folly. I don't want to repeat myself too much here, however much I enjoy listening to my argument again.)

Saucepan has said in the previous chapter that we are analysing Boromir psychologically. Here let me extricate my argument from that statement. Rather, I consider Boromir narratologically. Whoa! Big word. Not as big as verisimilitude, but up there. I mean simply that I consider Boromir the character's function in terms of plot or narrative/story.

Tolkien the writer has a problem. He's got the son of the Steward of Minas Tirith who thinks he's the One thank you very much, oldest son and Dad's favourite and the Big Man on Campus. Having won election as campus leader, he just knows he is going to be President of the University someday. However, Tolkien's got the 'once and future King', Aragorn-Arthur, who is going to return to claim the throne for righteousness and true love's sake. (My flippancy here does not do justice to how Tolkien rewrites the courtly love scenario in Aragorn and Arwen, but that is for another chapter anyway.) Now, how does a writer resolve that situation? He can let them go mano e mano, duking it out for the top dukedom, so to speak. But that will interfer with his depiction of Elessar's true nobility. Better to get the pretender out of the way somehow. And out of the way before the big A starts his lonely journey of proving himself.

What kinds of 'somehow' are available? Well, there's a chance to demonstrate by opposition the kind of true nobility which the rightful king will demonstrate. That is, show how the Pretender does not measure up. Then, there is the very attractive opportunity to demonstrate something of the power of the Ring over a character who can safely, without damaging the main plot line, be done away with. And, finally, there's a wonderful opportunity to call into play the most important moral value which the quest to destroy the Ring will show: the value of pity. Boromir the character didn't have a chance. He was just too perfectly expendable.

He can, then, go greatly in to that goodnight. Boromir's death provides Tolkien with the chance to create an essential feature of the Norther Warrior's demise: the funeral boat. Expending time on this scene demonstrates two things: the value of the dead in this kind of society--as the earthly home of the spirit they deserve a respectful closure-- as well as the funeral rites befitting a hero. Here, for example, is the funeral boat of Scyld Scefing from Beowulf. I'm using Seamus Heaney's translation, so his name is Shield Sheafson.
Quote:

Shield was still thriving when his time came
and he crossed over into the Lord's keeping
His warrior band did what he bade them
when he laid down the law among the Danes:
they shouldered him out to the sea's flood,
the chief they revered who had long ruled them.
A ring-whorled prow rode in the harbour,
ice-clad, outbound, a craft for a prince.
they stretched their beloved lord in his boat,
laid out by the mast, amidships,
the great ring-giver. Far-fetched treasures
were piled upon him, and precious gear.
I never heard before of a ship so well furbished
with battle tackle, bladed weapons
and coats of mail. The massed treasure
was loaded on top of him: it would travel far
on out into the ocean's sway.
They decked his body no less bountifully
with offerings than those first ones did
who cast him away when he was a child
and launched him alone out over the waves.
And they set a gold standard up
high above his head and let him drift
to wind and tide, bewailing him
and mourning their loss. No man can tell,
no wise man in hall or weathered veteran
knows for certain who salvaged that load.
This contrasts with Beowulf's death, where Beowulf had decreed a barrow be built and his body was first consumed upon a pyre with his gold and treasures. Yet consider these last lines from the poem:

Quote:
So the Geat people, his hearth companions,
sorrowed for the lord who had been laid low.
They said that of all the kings upon the earth
he was the man most gracious and fair-minded,
kindest to his people and keenest to win fame.
Well, just a final little note to the extended edition of the Heroic Northern Warrior arguement.
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Last edited by Bęthberry; 11-22-2004 at 01:30 PM. Reason: typos; added the Dylan Thomas allusion
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Old 11-22-2004, 11:39 AM   #2
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This is rather a short chapter - only about seven and a half pages. Why? Perhaps in part because it's not really its own chapter; in terms of content, it is more like the conclusion of the previous chapter, "The Breaking of the Fellowship". This is a nice little trick Tolkien plays: he leaves us in the midst of the action at the end of Book II (only for Frodo and Sam are things in any way concluded there), putting the literal division between the books before the natural conclusion of Book II (that conclusion being Boromir's death and Aragorn's decision to go after Merry and Pippin). Nonetheless, I'm inclined to agree with Estelyn that Peter Jackson actually made the right decision here; this is perhaps one of the few cases where the movie-aesthetic really is different from the book-aesthetic.

This chapter is in my opinion probably the best portrayal of Aragorn in the book. Aragorn, I will admit, is not my favorite character. Not that I dislike him - but it often seems that he lacks depth. In the discussion of I-10 I said:

Quote:
He is a flat character in the tradition of great flat characters like Aeneas and Beowulf. It's not that he is poorly characterized, just that he does not have the same sort of psychological hook as Turin or Gollum or even Frodo.
Well, if there's one chapter that proves me wrong, I think it's this one. Here, Aragorn's indecision, his mistakes, his regrets - all are vividly and effectively depicted. For example:

Quote:
Boromir smiled.
'Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?' said Aragorn.
But Boromir did not speak again.
'Alas!' said Aragorn. 'Thus passes the heir of Denethor, Lord of the Tower of the Guard! This is a bitter end. Now the company is all in ruin. It is I that have failed. Vain was Gandalf's trust in me. What shall I do now? Boromir has laid it on me to go to Minas Tirith, and my heart desires it; but where are the Ring and the Bearer? How shall I find them and save the Quest from disaster?'
Even the minutest detail is perfect here - as, for example, that Aragorn waited a moment too long to ask Boromir whether Frodo was with them.

This kind of indecision is really needed at this point in the book. One of the dangers of having characters like Aragorn and, especially, Gandalf, aiding Frodo is that, deep down, it is almost impossible for the reader to believe that such figures of benevolent authority will ever fail or be defeated. Only by showing us that they can and do fail (or even better, killing them off) can Tolkien make the reader really worry.
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Old 11-22-2004, 11:43 AM   #3
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Beautiful

One question remains - the main point of putting Scyld into the boat was to 'pay back' - as he came by boat as a child.

But that remark is mainly due to my natural nastiness. Me and my long tongue, so to say. I can't be constructive in the case, so I withdraw

cheers

EDIT: cross-posted with Aiwendil. All of the post above refers to Bb's post (previous but one) END OF EDIT
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HerenIstarion
One question remains - the main point of putting Scyld into the boat was to 'pay back' - as he came by boat as a child.
My dear HI, among the several possible answers which I could make, I shall settle for this: aren't they sending Denethor's child back by express boat to Minas Tirith?
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Old 11-22-2004, 01:56 PM   #5
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Eye

Quote:
The chapter title is rather ambiguous - did anyone think that it meant Boromir was going to Minas Tirith when first reading the book?
Yes.

The first time I read LOTR my head was spinning after this chapter.

Frodo and Sam are off alone, Boromir gets killed, Merry and Pippin get captured (probably the thing I least expected), and Aragorn decides to chase after M & P.
Quote:
Maybe there is no right choice.
That's exactly how I was feeling when I read this part.
Quote:
Then sitting in the high seat he looked out. But the sun seemed darkened, and the world dim and remote.
Hmm... could Sauron have anything to do with this? Sauron had felt somebody who was either powerful or had a powerful object in their possession looking at him from the hill earlier in the day. Perhaps he was still giving Amon Hen (or the area around it) a bit of attention which caused Aragorn's sight on the hill to be darkened or cloaked.

And I agree with Aldarion and his points regarding the funeral song and how it could have been made up on the spot.
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Old 11-22-2004, 02:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Aldarion
Second, think about contemporary rap music (I use the m-word with reservations). Rap was originally improvised by the performer like jazz solos, and only when it became pop music did it become so produced.
I did think of M&M playing Aragorn in my planned remake of the movie & now I think I may be on to something. If we had Britney as Arwen & Madonna & Galadriel we could have he makings of something....

As to Bb's points re Boromir - I agree up to a point, but I also think Boromir is a perfectly believable character in his own right, & if he serves as a foil for Aragorn that may serve the purposes of the plot that merely shows Tolkien's greatness. In other words, I could see Boromir working as a character in other stories, without an Aragorn figure to give him relevance. Both characters are valid & believeable, & so is the clash between them. I don't think Boromir's death & the effect it has on the others would be as moving if he was merely a means of showing Aragorn in a positive light. After all the interactions between many of the characters could be presented in the same way - to what extent is Gollum used to bring out elements in Frodo's & Sam's characters? Or Sam to bring out elements in Frodo's (or Gollum's) character.

Is Boromir so 'disposable' a figure? I have to lean towards the 'psychological' interpretation of him. He is a complex character in his own right as well as being everything you say in terms of what he brings to the fore in Aragorn. We're all 'foils' to others in our own way, but that doesn't make us any less 'real', or any more 'disposable'.

Also, yes, his funeral echoes an ancient funereal tradition, & no doubt that was intentional on Tolkien's part, but given the circumstances of the plot & the situation the characters found themselves in, it was also the only logical way to 'dispose of the body'. What else were they going to do with him? As for using him 'narratologically' I'm uncertain - Tolkien simply didn't have things planned out in that kind of way. From the early drafts its clear he hadn't decided what was to happen to Boromir - & as B88 has pointed out his original intention for Boromir was very different. It seems to me that his death & the mode of his funeral came to Tolkien not much before he actually wrote it. There's a danger in confusing art with artifice & I think Tolkien was motivated by the former.
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:11 PM   #7
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I have always found this chapter very affecting; my first read of it inspired me to draw a picture of Boromir's death scene, something which always comes to mind when I read it again. The scene in the film was as I had imagined it all those years ago, and thus, is one of my favourites in both book and film.

Quote:
Aragorn knelt beside him. Boromir opened his eyes and strove to speak. At last slow words came. "I tried to take the Ring from Frodo," he said. "I am sorry. I have paid." His glance strayed to his fallen enemies; twenty at least lay there. "They have gone: the Halflings: the Orcs have taken them. I think they are not dead. Orcs bound them." He paused and his eyes closed wearily. After a moment he spoke again.
"Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed."
'No!" said Aragorn, taking his hand and kissing his brow. 'You have conquered. Few have gained such a victory. Be at peace! Minas Tirith shall not fall!"
Boromir smiled.
"Which way did they go? Was Frodo there?" said Aragorn.
But Boromir did not speak again.
'Alas!" said Aragorn. "Thus passes the heir of Denethor, Lord of the Tower of Guard! This is a bitter end. Now the Company is all in ruin. It is I that have failed. Vain was Gandalf's trust in me. What shall I do now? Boromir has laid it on me to go to Minas Tirith, and my heart desires it; but where are the Ring and the Bearer? How shall I find them and save the Quest from disaster?"
He knelt for a while, bent with weeping, still clasping Boromir's hand. So it was that Legolas and Gimli found him.
I was wondering, what is it about this chapter which is so emotionally gripping? Firstly, there is the actual death of Boromir which is written with real gravitas. Boromir has his final words, in which he admits to his failing in trying to take the ring, giving him a final touch of honesty where he has not always seemingly been honest previously. He also lies amongst the bodies of the enemies he has slain, thus marking him out as an effective warrior. He dies in pain, but not without trying to seek assurance that the people who look up to him will be helped; his last words are not for himself but for those below him in the hierarchy of Gondor. This brings to mind an image of a 'good soldier', perhaps that of the 'Unknown Soldier'. He is loyal to his people and dies after confessing his failings.

Here Aragorn shows just why he is loved and admired. He comforts Boromir in his dying moments. It is not immediately apparent whether Aragron truly means these words, but as the tale moves on, it becomes clear that he did admire Boromir as a comrade; after all, it's hard to imagine Aragorn crying over a man he did not admire. And it is Aragorn who leads the funeral lament. He displays himself as any respected military leader might; he is affected by the death of a valued comrade, even a little shaken by it. He tends the body with honour and dignity, leading his living comrades in mourning, and once all due respects have been paid, turns his mind to the next move.

If Aragorn's actions are viewed as a whole, including those written about in this chapter, it is more possible to see him as a rounded figure. I too can find him he comes out with slightly pompous words at times, but I think this is perfectly allowable for a character who is supposed to be a king in exile, a military leader.

About the mourning song - perhaps this song would be based upon a familiar format used at such tragic events; I noticed how they spoke of the points of the compass in turn, which did suggest that an established 'format' was being made use of. And verbosity does seem to be commonplace in Middle Earth, so I don't find it so peculiar that words could be composed on the spot.

Quote:
I did think of M&M playing Aragorn in my planned remake of the movie & now I think I may be on to something. If we had Britney as Arwen & Madonna & Galadriel we could have he makings of something....
Well we already have Jerry Springer The Opera* so why not Tolkien The Rock Opera? Perhaps not...

*And yes, it is a genuine opera, I have seen it.
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:38 PM   #8
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Another "trick" for making up songs on the spot is to use established patterns. Iin Homer's day, "Rosy Fingered Dawn" shows up more than once. I suspect that Lament for Boromir has some re-useable patterns in it, and the implication is that they might have come from previous dirges. Aragorn fought for both Rohan and Gondor ("Thorongil"...) and so has heard more than one lament in his day.

I also wonder-- with the Old English tendency to boast over a cup:

Ćlfwine then said, he spoke with courage:
"Remember the times that we often spoke at mead,
when on the bench we raised up our boast,
saviors in hall, about hard battle;
Now may he who would be bold be tested.
( Battle of Maldon )

Perhaps did Aragorn, Gimli, and Boromir talk and jest about such things? How many Gondorian songs did Boromir sing between Rivendell and Parth Galen? And did those songs affect their lament for him?

And I wonder also-- did warriors jest about how they want to be remembered? Ever written your own epitaph, or what you wanted it to be, as an exercise? I can imagine warriors doing the same thing. (Especially after reading 'Battle of Maldon, ' where such things come up often )
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Old 11-22-2004, 04:22 PM   #9
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Boromir's last words intrigue me.
Quote:
"Farewell, Aragorn! Go to Minas Tirith and save my people! I have failed."
What did Boromir fail? Fail to protect the hobbits? Failed to save his people, or both? This last part catches my attention.
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Old 11-23-2004, 10:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lalwendë
Boromir has his final words, in which he admits to his failing in trying to take the ring, giving him a final touch of honesty where he has not always seemingly been honest previously.
Boromir not honest? I'm surpirised no one else has pounced on this one, yet. Or maybe everyone's got a little bit of Boromir burnout (TM me) after the last several weeks.

Seriously, this observation gave me pause to think a bit. Obviously Boromir prides himself on being totally honest all of the time. Men of Minis Tirith do not lie. This implies a question to me, however - is it possible to be totally honest all of the time without being, on some level at least, dishonest with yourself. That is, the complete honesty becomes a sort of self-delusion.

I think that the pride issue is the answer in this case. Boromir did in fact lie to himself, every time he told himself that he could handle the ring. We could argue whether the ring was lying to him, or influencing what was already in him, or his own pride and the stories he knew of the ring caused it, but Boromir's greatest lie was to himself.

This line of thought has got me wondering about the possibility of living a completely truthfull life. Some truths hurts, such as "the dress you just spent $75 on makes you look fat," or "I cannot really handle the temptation of (the ring, pornography, alcoholism, insert your favorite addictive behavior here)." But all hard truths have a way of being dealt with without being purposely hurtfull.

Now that I've re-read my post, I think that the sort of complete honesty that I was refering to in my second paragraph isn't really honesty at all. It is seeing the world and yourself as you would like it to be, not as it really is. Boromir is presented as the ultimate pragmatist (at least in his own mind), wanting to take the ring and fininsh off the enemy, rather than send the ring to almost certain capture in the heart of enemy territory.

I would argue that, rather than the most pragmatic of the bunch, Boromir is the most idealistic of the company - an idealism that is not rooted in reality.

Chew on that...
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