(Plot+Characters)*Voice^2=Literature?

[Rimbaud]

Spelling is important. In my trans-Atlantic household, with two breeds of newspaper, the crosswords can get very confusing. My personal bugbear though with differentiation in spelling between English-speaking countries? Microsoft and the default to US English feature.

More to the point, learning a rule of language or grammar at school is admirable - breaking it later will be all the more satisfying when you can explain exactly why you deemed it appropriate. Don't abuse the poetic license, he's a fragile little chap

[Lalwendë]

Let me shake your hand! And also the auto-complete function. This almost provokes me to acts of violence and I seriously consider behaving like one of those machine-breakers from the industrial revolution.

Now for a little tale which might encourage some of the younger ‘Downers struggling through school – long as you don’t say “Oh, it’s that mad old lady again with her tales” . I once had a dreadful English teacher who thought a good lesson consisted of answering comprehension questions on the book we were reading. Obviously we all grew restive and our interest slipped and we stopped doing our homework. I was always what in the US might be called a ‘straight A student’ (or swot in this country) so I was dismayed to find I only had a C in my end of term report. I challenged it and my teacher told me I would fail my O levels because I failed to ‘toe the line’. I tried to toe the line after that, but I hated it. Luckily, my usual teacher came back from maternity leave, and when my O level results came through I had two As in English. I later got an A level and a degree in English, I’m even a qualified English teacher! What this tells you is that sometimes it is hard struggling with a poor teacher, or even with a teacher you simply have a personality clash with, but never give up, as that would be to admit defeat!

About getting work back covered in red pen and sarcastic comments – I get this at work. I think all managers here have teacher fantasies, and they simply cannot resist the temptation to make mincemeat out of your reports and briefings. At first it is a horrible thing to have to take, but eventually, you realise that their manager does it to them, and so on all the way up the hierarchy!

I just love the semi colon though, as anyone who reads my RPGs will know. It’s just, somehow…right to me. It allows a pause between thoughts. I recommend the book Eats Shoots & Leaves to anyone interested in punctuation; it sounds like it might be deadly dull, but its very wittily written!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Um, those aren't archaic spellings. They are in current and consistent use this side of the Atlantic. In other words, they are 'proper' English.

Me: *muttered* "If we were anywhere else in the world it'd be right."
Him: "We aren't, it's not, and fix your Microsoft Word default."

My teacher has all the patience in the world for creative writing (although he's not much a fantasy fan), but he's got a 10-point list that my classmates love to hate. If you misuse any word on the list, you automatically get 10 points docked from your grade. If he sees anything you did outside of class where you misuse a word, he docks 10 points from your most recent assignment. Examples of the words are 'there' versus 'they're' and 'their', 'to', 'two', and 'too', etcetera. He picks words that students commonly screw up and gets downright mean about it. It's funny though.

My latest English Class Drama was when I got back a 4-page paper with an angry "Stop over-writing. The assignment was ONE PAGE." I got a 95 on the paper anyhow, but I picked up the habit of using a lot of detailed imagery, and that takes up space. So my one-page weekly journal entries usually end up quite a lot longer.

Speaking of English class... perhaps I should turn around and pay attention.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

My teacher has all the patience in the world for creative writing (although he's not much a fantasy fan), but he's got a 10-point list that my classmates love to hate. If you misuse any word on the list, you automatically get 10 points docked from your grade. If he sees anything you did outside of class where you misuse a word, he docks 10 points from your most recent assignment. Examples of the words are 'there' versus 'they're' and 'their', 'to', 'two', and 'too', etcetera. He picks words that students commonly screw up and gets downright mean about it.

Good for him. I hope that improper use of an apostrophe is on the list too. When I see my students getting "its" and "it's" confused I go ballistic.

But to get this off Mars and back on topic. . .while I too find the anachronistic language of LotR (particularly of RotK) distracting and even stilted at points, I think that it has an important function. Tolkien wanted his story to be consistent, perhaps even evocative of his Christian faith, but he avoided all direct allegorical representations or allusions. Neither Aragorn nor Frodo are Christ-figures; Galadriel is not Mary; there is no direct representation of communion etc.

I think what Tolkien did instead was to use a language that is highly reminiscent -- in its "heightened" moments -- of the language that we find in the King James Bible or (more appropriate for Tolk) the Latin Vulgate. By having his characters speak at times in this rather artificed (but not necessarily artificial way) he is able to evoke the tone and 'feel' of Biblical narrative without having to constrain his story or shackle particular events to particular allusions.

For example, when the Witch-King casts down the gates of Minas Tirith and enters, there is that incredible passage:

Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed. Shrill and clear he crowed, recking nothing of wizardry or war, welcoming only the morning that in the sky far above the shadows of death was coming with the dawn.

And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. In dark Mindolluin's sides they dimly echoed. Great horns of the North wildly blowing. Rohan had come at last.

There are a number of things here that are decidely biblical, in terms of the passage's style: the brief sentences, some of which repeat each other; sentences that begin with "and" as the action accrues and grows; alliteration ("wizardry or war, welcoming"; "death. . .dawn"; "dark. . .dimly"); even biblical kinds of imagery (a crowing cock, blowing horns, "shadows of death"). The ultimate effect of this is to make this moment evocative of the Bible without maknig a direct one-to-one reference: there is no story from the Bible that I can think of which mirrors the coming of the Rohirrim; but the passage sure sounds biblical!

[davem]

Originally Posted by Fordim

Good for him. I hope that improper use of an apostrophe is on the list too. When I see my students getting "its" and "it's" confused I go ballistic.

This kind of makes me glad I left High School at 16 & have never set foot in an educational establishment since - I suspect I'd have left a trail of exploded tutors in my wake

[Lalwendë]

There are a number of things here that are decidely biblical, in terms of the passage's style: the brief sentences, some of which repeat each other; sentences that begin with "and" as the action accrues and grows; alliteration ("wizardry or war, welcoming"; "death. . .dawn"; "dark. . .dimly"); even biblical kinds of imagery (a crowing cock, blowing horns, "shadows of death"). The ultimate effect of this is to make this moment evocative of the Bible without maknig a direct one-to-one reference: there is no story from the Bible that I can think of which mirrors the coming of the Rohirrim; but the passage sure sounds biblical!

This has left me feeling somewhat perturbed. When I write a speech I use brief sentences, sentences beginning with 'and', alliteration, repetition. Have I been taught to write words which are intended to sound 'biblical'? And then there is the mysterious 'rule of three' - Horns, Horns, Horns. It's not so far from Education, Education, Education is it? (Which I hasten to add is nowt to do with me).

I too don't like misused apostrophes and mock loudly when I see one in a Greengrocer's window, but then I remember the errors I make daily due to my non-existent typing skills and I check myself.

[Bêthberry]

To my great regret, I have been able to follow this interesting thread only by reading for much of this week and even now must reply shortly. Please over look any curtness that arises from brevity.

A great deal of old rhetorical style in English derived from Greek theories of good speaking, or oratory: Vir bonus dicendi peritus est. "The good man is skilled in speech", Quintilian.

Many of our habits still reflect some of those values, even without the influence of school teachers. Churchill used the 'rule of three' in many of his stirring wartime speeches. John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address is a model of Greek rhetoric. The first chapter of one of Hemingway's novels can be thoroughly analysed for its structure using the old pattern for organising a speech.--Yes, Hemingway, father of allegedly of pity modern style in American novels.

The Renaissance come about in part with the rediscovery of Greek. And so the men who translated the King James Bible were also men highly schooled in the latest ideas about language. The melifluous style and tone of the King James derives from this common sense among the translators of what was beautiful lanaguage. (And is why some modern translations, which are techically correct as translations, seem to lack "poetry.")

Language, as Rimbaud has said, is all about pattern and structure. It is the very repetition of patterns--and then their variations and deviations--that makes meaning, as Fordim has argued here. I think it is very perceptive of Fordim to make this argument about the archaic language, for usually it is related to the heroic narratives Tolkien harkened to.

But, alas, I must fly. I hope no one calls me a fool for it!

[Lachwen]

Fëanor: while I can kind of understand where your teacher is coming from, docking points for a word misused outside of his class is a bit much. I would complain to the principal or the head of the department at that point.

I think what Tolkien did instead was to use a language that is highly reminiscent -- in its "heightened" moments -- of the language that we find in the King James Bible or (more appropriate for Tolk) the Latin Vulgate.

I disagree. Tolkien's writing is reminiscent more of the Norse sagas (or a good translation of Beowulf) than the much more formal language of the King James Bible. Tolkien was, after all, writing his own saga, and pulled much of his linguistic inspiration from cultures that passed on most of their history in sagas and epic poems (Anglo-saxon, Finnish, etc.). Latin does not have much of an influence in Lord of the Rings because it is more closely related to Quenya than any of the other languages in Middle-earth; and Quenya does not appear very often in Lord of the Rings. Only four times in real quantity, in fact: Frodo's greeting of Gildor, Galadriel's farewell song in Lórien, Treebeard's musings on the Golden Wood, and Aragorn's little coronation speech. As was stated earlier, The Lord of the Rings was supposed to be a transcription of the Red Book, which was written by Hobbits; they would not have used highly formal language because they were really quite unfamiliar with it (Tolkien addresses this in Appendix F, Section I, Of Hobbits).

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Lachwen

I disagree. Tolkien's writing is reminiscent more of the Norse sagas (or a good translation of Beowulf) than the much more formal language of the King James Bible. Tolkien was, after all, writing his own saga, and pulled much of his linguistic inspiration from cultures that passed on most of their history in sagas and epic poems (Anglo-saxon, Finnish, etc.). Latin does not have much of an influence in Lord of the Rings because it is more closely related to Quenya than any of the other languages in Middle-earth; and Quenya does not appear very often in Lord of the Rings. Only four times in real quantity, in fact: Frodo's greeting of Gildor, Galadriel's farewell song in Lórien, Treebeard's musings on the Golden Wood, and Aragorn's little coronation speech. As was stated earlier, The Lord of the Rings was supposed to be a transcription of the Red Book, which was written by Hobbits; they would not have used highly formal language because they were really quite unfamiliar with it (Tolkien addresses this in Appendix F, Section I, Of Hobbits).

I think we need to be very careful here about our terminology and our references. For instance, LotR incorporates a rather wide range of styles. There is common agreement that the hobbits' dialogue is a much more colloquial style than that used by, say, Gimli and Legolas, later in the book. (In fact, the style of their dialogue changes from Book I to Book III.) This can be demonstrated both by lexical means (the register and tone of the words used) and syntactical analysis.

The point which intrigued me about Fordim's observation of the archaic aspects of the style (and not all of it is archaic, and we probably ought to explain more precisely what we mean by archaic) has to do with the comments made above by several people about Tolkien's use of 'and' and coordinated sentences.

This is a style of syntax which is associated with the Old Testament. Gerald Hammond, who wrote The Making of the English Bible, says in an essay on English translations of the Bible the following:

Old Testament narrative is characterised by its almost exclusive use of the conjunction waw to link virtually every clause and sentence. Right from the beginnings English translators of the Bible were happy to rend these links with "and", so that their narratives sometimes consist entirely of coordinate clauses. It is probable that this practice was something natural to early sixteenth-century writers of English prose, inheritors of a tradition going back to Anglo-Saxon's repeated use of ond. But this is distinctive to English, in contrast to the more sophisticated syntax of the Vulgate, and even of Luther's German. And that the English translators appreciated this harmony between Hebrew and English is borne out by the successive versions' increasing use of it through the century--despite the growing felxibility of English prose during this period. ... The Authorised Version's translators, rather than reducing the percentage of coordination, actually intensified it

(He gives a compa5rison of a passage from Tyndale, the King James, the Jerusalem. and the New International, but that leads away from my point, except that the King James is more consistent with the sytax of the original, of the lot.)

One other stylistic example of the Renaissance translators was to use what Harmond calls "a formulaic rendering of common words." This is less deadly than it sounds! He means simply that these translators did not substitute synonums for words but instead reimployed the same words in passages. They relied on keywords economically to link, for example, three meanings of "know" in Genesis (the shame of the truit of the tree of knowledge, God's knowledge, and sexuality). Is this something Tolkien does? We would be well to examine his style to see if he does.

Here's another passage from Tolkien which uses coordination extensively (among other traits of 'old rhetorical styel':

The Captains bowed their heads; and when they looked up again, behold! their enemies were flying and the power of Mordor was scattering like dust in the wind. As when death smites the swollen brooding thing that inhabits their crawling hill and holds them all in sway, ants will wander witless and purposeless and then feebly die, so the creatures ofSauron, orc or troll or beast spell-enslaved, ran hither and thither mindless; and some slew themselves, or cast themselves in pits or fled wailing back to hide in holds and dark lightless places far from hope.
The Field of Cormallen

This is not to deny traits consistent with the nordic epics Tolkien loved or with Anglo Saxon poetry. But simply to suggest that Tolkien incorporates a great many different styles in LotR, from many sources.