The Red Book Of Westmarch

[Boromir88]

If you happen to have a Middle-earth map handy it's down by the Gulf of Lhun.

Nilpaurion Felagund that doesn't really work because we know for a fact what 4 of the volumes are. 3 bilbo gave him which must be sepret accounts of the war and varioius other parts of the history of middle earth. 1 volume is filled with commentaries, genealogies and various other matters.

So were left with one vlume so it's gotta be Bilbo's diary, Frodo's account, and what sam's wrote.

Does that sound right to you?

[Boromir88]

It sounds right but my brain is getting even more mushed. Here, wonder if this will help.

Frodo brought [Bilbo's diary] back to the Shire, together with many loose leaves of notes, and during S.R. 1420-I he nearly filled its pages with his account of the War.

So that talks about Bilbo's diary, and Frodo added his tale in it. Then...

But annexed to it (the diary) and preserved with it (the diary), probably in a single red case, were the three large volumes bound in red leather, that Bilbo gave to him as a parting gift.

The parting gift is Bilbo's three volumes, by saying "annexed" I would assum he took the diary (a combination of Bilbo's, Frodo's, and Sam's tales) and combined it with three volumes which Frodo didn't write anything at all in, left it alone.

This part contradicts my earlier post, but now I see how it works. Bilbo's "section" of the diary is his tale There and Back again/The Hobbit
Snowbird, wow you were right this is a tad confusing, but just a tad .

So you're saying that the three volumes are other things bilbo wrote?

In the next day or two Frodo went through his papers and his writings with Sam, and he hadned over his keys. THere was a big book with a plain red leather covers; its tall pages were now almost filled. At the beginning there were many leaves covered with Bilbo's thin wandering hand; but most of it was written in Frodo's firm flowing script. It was divided into chapters, but Chapter 80 was unfinished, and after that were some blank leaves. The title page had many titles on it, crossed out one after another, so:

My Diary. My Unexpected Journey. There and Back Again. And What Happened After.
Adventures of Finve Hobbits. The Tale of the Great Ring, compiled by Bilbo Baggins from his own obswervations and the accounts of his friends What we did in the War of the Ring.

I'm wondering if that's saying that the three other volumes are My Unexpected Journey. There and Back Again. And What Happened After.
Adventures of Finve Hobbits. The Tale of the Great Ring, compiled by Bilbo Baggins from his own obswervations and the accounts of his friends What we did in the War of the Ring. And that the diary is something different. And that Frodo just took that and him and sam added to that.

Argh, so confused.

[Boromir88]

So you're saying that the three volumes are other things bilbo wrote?

Yes, but I could be wrong.

I'm wondering if that's saying that the three other volumes are My Unexpected Journey. There and Back Again. And What Happened After.
Adventures of Finve Hobbits. The Tale of the Great Ring, compiled by Bilbo Baggins from his own obswervations and the accounts of his friends What we did in the War of the Ring.

It's possible.

Do you know if Frodo "added to the diary" before or after he recieved the 3 other volumes?

If so Then it makes sense that frodo has the diary and the 3 other volumes and there are some blank pages that he and sam fill. And that makes a lot of sense. Otherwise back to the drawing board.

[Firefoot]

Hold on a minute. The

"My Diary. My Unexpected Journey. There and Back Again. And What Happened After.
Adventures of Finve Hobbits. The Tale of the Great Ring, compiled by Bilbo Baggins from his own obswervations and the accounts of his friends What we did in the War of the Ring."

is what Bilbo was going to name the Red Book - he was having some trouble coming up with a title. Frodo got rid of all that and replaced it with "The Downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King." Those titles are NOT the names of those other volumes.

All of these different books are getting confused on this thread. They are:

The Red Book of Westmarch: Includes Bilbo's diary of his journey (The Hobbit), Frodo's telling of the events of the War of the Ring, and Sam's reflections. This book was started by Bilbo in Hobbiton, taken with him to Rivendell to finish (though he didn't), given to Frodo in Rivendell on Frodo's way back to the Shire, nearly finished by Frodo in the Shire, and given to Sam to finish before Frodo passed into the West.

Three volumes (also bound in red leather): Includes the compilation of the tale of Elves in the First Age (The Silmarillion). These were written by Bilbo in Rivendell. They were finished by the time Bilbo gave these volumes to Frodo. Frodo used them as references while writing his part of the Red Book, but he himself did not write in these volumes. They are separate from the Red Book, but they go together like books in a series.

A fifth volume: Included genealogies, commentaries, etc. concerning the hobbit members of the Fellowship (i.e. Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin). This was added later in Westmarch. This volume is like the Appendices at the back of RotK.

Frodo did add to the diary (The Red Book) after he received the three volumes.

I hope this will straighten things out.