The Gift of Speech

[Morsul the Dark]

well I think It is a matter of when Tolkien wrote his books. The Hobbit and the lost tales delve much more into fantasy than LOTR does when you think about LOTR besides eagles being huge and the fell creatures and the ring the book is basicly realistic while the hobbit is much less serious and more focused on fantasy dragons and d talking birds( yes I remember Gwaihir but Gandalf is a maiar therefore has the power to talk with natural beasts perhaps if gwaihir apporached the hobbits they wouldn't understand him.) so the first few ages are much more fantasy than LOTR. Also maybe the sword didn't talk the weilder just enjoyed his pipeweed a tad too much

[burrahobbit]

Most of the really outlandish stuff in The Hobbit comes from Blbo's fevered imagination. The things in the other books???

[Kuruharan]

It is kind of interesting to ask, "How did anyone know that Gurthang spoke? Nobody else was there at the time."

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Turin was a suicidal wreck. Bear that in mind.

[Mithalwen]

I think that is the truth of it, Eomer. I guess that these instances are a projection of the psyche of Turin and Sam.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Sam?

[Mithalwen]

Click on the qv link... article about the ring "speaking"

[The Saucepan Man]

Um, in a world where we have Hobbits, Elves, Dwarves, Trolls, Dragons and walking talking trees, is it really too far-fetched to believe in talking swords?

The Barrow-Wights were dead creatures inhabited by houseless spirits. And I believe that Tolkien, in one of the HoME volumes, talks of disembodied spirits seeking to gain control over the bodies of the living.

Is it not possible that Eol learned the craft of infusing inanimate objects with houseless spirits? Or perhaps such a spirit simply decided to house itself in a sword of its own accord. Given that a spirit can exist independently of a physical body, there is no reason why it should necessarily require an organic body.

As for the Ring, it contained part of Sauron's will.

Given that telepathy was used in Middle-earth, in Elvish Osanwe for example, I see no reason why possessed objects should not be able to 'speak' even without the physical apparatus to do so.

[Mithalwen]

Perhaps not in general - but for me specifically maybe... my reply was intended as a personal response not a definitive statement. Mabe it is my increasing cynicism or a fascination with psychology that leads me to prefer this scenario - especially in the case of Turin. Nevertheless I have always found this one of the most powerful moments in the opus - and one of the most memorable - even though I don't feel it was literally the sword speaking.

[A_Brandybuck]

At first I want to say hello to you all here, because it is my first post in this forum.
Now, to the topic...

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Is it not possible that Eol learned the craft of infusing inanimate objects with houseless spirits? Or perhaps such a spirit simply decided to house itself in a sword of its own accord. Given that a spirit can exist independently of a physical body, there is no reason why it should necessarily require an organic body.

We have here two cases, which are possible.
1) Turin has mentioned, that Gurthang didn't talk. All happened in Turambars brain. But we don't know it for sure, Tolkien never said that directly. But this is possible, especially from the psychologic point and the mental confusion in which Turambar is situated.

2) The sword came orginally from Eol, who forged it from a fallen meteorite. I remember darkly, that Melian (?) said to Turin, that the dark heart of that dark elf has lived in the sword. So it is possible, that Eol forged in a way that something of his 'spirit' came into this sword. Or the metal of the fallen meteorite has some special attributes, so that the sword have an inherent power after being forged and is indeed in a way similar to the one ring, but with less power.
There are many details, which could be the cause of the innate power of the sword: Eol's abilities to forge, the special metal or the dark soul of Eol.
Maybe the curse of Morgoth played a rol in that story.

IMHO the sword didn't really physically speak. But Turambar heard something in his mind. But I don't think, that this was only a product of his mind. The sword was in a way the cause, that all the ill-things came into his mind. With a normal sword, he hadn't had this 'bout'. Only my meaning.